I expect some daredevil replies.
It's time for multi-lateral talks about territorial rights in the South China Sea. The issue involves many more countries besides Vietnam.
do you see a way for addressing this issue? I'm thinking where it likely tend toward.
It's time to begin multi-lateral talks between all parties with territorial claims in the area. The current trend of multiple simultaneous bi-lateral discussions between China and smaller countries is not adequate for settling the disputes once and for all.
not at all, I appreciate the liberty of speech on WLIB
Me too. I love that we can have a civilized discussion about territorial sovereignty in the harmonious society.
I'm particularly pleased that we're not living in the United States of Asia, where coconut republics would be bullied by a regional superpower claiming a manifest destiny to control an entire hemisphere.
I was indoctrinated by the vast left-wing conspiracy of ivory tower academics long before I arrived in China.
All of the above.
I'm the Chaircreature of the nth Alternational Transgressive Posthumanist Dissociation. Our methods are not unlike Trotsky's permanent revolutionary praxis, except we have not yet identified the precise moment at which the revolution will begin.
Methinks it will be sometime around 4:15~4:30 this afternoon. But I don't know for sure. Remind me.
Dando: is there any enmity between someone and u?
@Maxxy, No one here is worthy of my consideration, let alone my enmity. But I suppose there are some here who have been bruised by the hammer of my blunt honesty, and sliced by the blade of my incisive sarcasm. The masochists, they want more, and they don't care if they bring down the rest of the community in pursuit of this silly troll.
I'm terribly sorry that my presence should attract a plague of locusts to devour your thread.
Not a problem. I think I should thank you for keep my thread exposed to WLIBers for longer time. yet seems not many ppl intersted in this topic.
lets go down there and build an old oil rig and claim 200KM round to belong now to WLIB-Land problem solved ...
@Xuedi, Fuck yeah! How I've dreamed of hijacking an oil platform and converting it to a micronation deriving its revenue from pirate webhosting services.
Xuedi: we need a jack-up rig then,
I actually wanna see how china's navy is now. and I think it's chinese way for asking soldiers in disguise of fishman and cutting off wirelines of petro vietnam. seems china's army is prepared, or they would not try to stir up vietnamese!
Dando: Idk if u been to a rig b4 or not, but life on a offshore platforms is damn lonely. you will stare at the sky/skyline/ocean all day long.
Alex: thus you're on China's side?
@Maxxy, But a sovereign micronation would permit quite enough depravity and debauchery to keep me amused.
If China keeps bullying its smaller neighbors in the South China Sea, it's going to attract the attention of a bigger bully with an actual navy. Do notice the irony of my first few posts.
Dando: I dont think you yankees dare to involve in this, if China is determined to fight this war, no one else wanna step in,ah, maybe stealthily sell some weapons.
South China sea is sth china could not slide over, while it's not about uncle sam's core benefit.
@Maxxy, Don't call me "you yankees." I have no love for the American military-industrial complex. I was an antiwar activist back when Bush was in office, when doing so meant I was not a "Real American".
That you describe it as a "war" and say China can't compromise with the other 48 countries with competing claims in the area says a lot about the need for an outside intermediary to keep things fair. And since it's "not about Uncle Sam's core benefit", I guess we can't claim they have ambitions to steal anyone's oil this time around. Still, the U.N. ought to be performing this role.
And I'll remind you that America doesn't have a need to stealthily sell weapons unless it's to clandestine paramilitary organizations (read: terrorists, which we're definitely not talking about right now). Why would they hide? That would be a missed opportunity for advertisement. Even when they're selling arms to the KMT, it's never a secret.
Dando: First, I didnt mean to argue. US claim they're behind vietnam, but you guys would not step in if it evolves into a war. and you may support vietnam to some extent, but you won't really jump out and against us. We need to settle south China sea, that's sth we have to address sooner or later.
I'm not so sure about that. I think a war in the South China Sea would be a gift to America, or at least certain groups of American elites.
America sucks at occupying countries and putting down insurrections, but there are a lot of old Cold Warriors who would like nothing more than an excuse to leave the embarrassing Middle East conflicts and engage in a conventional naval conflict for which they're better prepared and far more certain of winning.
A naval conflict between China and the U.S. would be completely asymmetrical. I'm not saber-rattling here. The reality is that we built up our Navy to contain the USSR. So let's compare the relative sizes of our "submarines" indirectly: how does the Chinese navy measure up against Russia's?
Furthermore, defending smaller Southeast Asian nations from an expansionist bully is precisely the kind of propaganda narrative that American militarists would use to motivate an armchair army of fatass rednecks to the polls to elect an awful reactionary who'll make George W. Bush look like Jimmy fucking Carter.
And that's why I don't want to see China compete with America for the title of #1 Asshole, because that will necessarily hasten my homeland's already heartbreaking transition into a fascist police state.
I hear you there. But still hard to say, we'll see. we should dispatch our troops onshore.
Scott: that's ur way for fighting wars. We used to fight a war with Vietnam in 1975, we got vietnam easily. if we launch the war on land, they have no chance to win.
The Chinese way of winning naval battles is to fight them on land?
Is anyone else thinking of the Chi Bi stage of 三國無双 where all the ships are chained together and the soldiers are fighting in melee?
It's not really even about cutting-edge technology. The PLA has strength in numbers, but it'll take far too long to move them anywhere, let alone keep them supplied. And that's how wars are won. Not with fancy toys, but with simple logistics.
Truth be told, the Khmer Rouge would never have been in the first place if we didn't bomb Cambodia illegally.
Scott: let's say 1979, i didnt wiki it, neither baidu it. but i suggest you to baidu it, you'll get adifferent version about this war certainly. I dont wanna say which is true to fact. It's for you to judge.
Scott: Let's forget about those shits, Wish you a nice weekend.
Destroy them ... but after I visit the country .. haha...
What the fuck does that have to do with anything we have been discussing?
@Cap, If you actually took the time to listen to a single fucking thing of what Chinese folks had to say about their own country you'd find that they're not totally incapable of criticizing their government. There is actually a rather short list of issues where you can reliably assume that Chinese people are going to be irrationally stubborn. Territorial sovereignty is one of them.
When you make a dipshit assumption--such as that because Maxxy is a hardliner on territorial sovereignty that he must necessarily be an oldschool Maoist 50 cent party member--and point to embarrassing periods in Chinese history which don't have any direct relation to the topic at hand, you do nothing more than invite Chinese folks to dismiss us as uncritically accepting the American view of history. Whether we're patriots or not doesn't matter to them as long as one of us is expressing open derision.
And although it's no perfect barometer of bellicosity, when a Dando warns you about using hostile rhetoric in ANY discussion, such an event might be an indicator that there is something awry.
"Asinine" is a word that really rolls off the tongue for you, eh? Well you can let the this ass of mine roll off your tongue, too, because I never said anything in support of the ZF here.
From the very beginning, I said that multilateral talks were necessary. Here's the background you neglected to obtain while you were too busy formulating your HERP DERP CHINA IS TEH BAD diatribe to realize how far I am from toeing the party line: Currently, negotiations between claimants are mainly bilateral. Diplomatic exchanges have been between China and Japan, China and the Philippines, China and Vietnam, Vietnam and Malaysia, Vietnam and Philippines, Malaysia and Philippines, etc.
This arrangement favors China, because it's easier for China to "divide and conquer" the smaller countries. It's bullying, hence my comparisons to the U.S. in my early posts.
The reason China is currently geting away with this is because ASEAN members also disagree with one another and EVERYONE has conflicting claims, and they're not just in conflict with China's. Yet as China becomes more aggressive, it becomes more necessary for the ASEAN to unite against the regional superpower and call upon outside support (be it the UN or the US). If China persists in its wholly unrealistic claim of the entire sea, it makes them look like a bully and contradicts the "peaceful superpower" face they've been showing the world.
And THAT is what is meant by multilateralism. It's a rather nuanced way of saying "Sorry, China, but you're not getting the whole pie this time." Chinese folks can be forgiven for not fully understanding the irony of the term "United States of Asia," but I thought you might be smart enough to notice that's my way of drawing parallels between Chinese expansionist aspirations and American manifest destiny. I was wrong. You're not smart enough to pick up on it, because you're a petty shitcock looking to start a fight.
There's no logical connection between the Cultural Revolution and the South China Sea debate. All you're saying is that the CPC is illegitimate (while ignoring the ideological and leadership shift when Deng took power), and that's not a persuasive argument for Chinese people, and gets us nowhere closer to a conclusion besides making this thread a candidate for harmonization.
Maybe the real problem with my job at the propaganda rag is that I've learned to be too diplomatic for my own good, and that's why I have to come here to take you clowns to school.
China and ASEAN will work together to improve multilateral cooperative win-win friendship strategies to ensure mutually beneficial sharing of resources in the South China Sea.
So Called "Captain America": First, from what you said, it's easy to tell that you don't know about the mental status of Chinese ppl today. and I'm simply one of them. I admit there r aload of crap on our textbooks and news, but that's not the only way for us to learn. I always tried to stand along the fact, thus my point of view neither on one side nor the other.
"Walk the deck the captain lies,
Fallen cold and dead."