Discussion » Beijing Life » New tough measures target foreigners working in Ch

  • Gullekian
    Gullekian wrote:

    No work permit, no protection: proposed law could mean tough times for laowai

    'New law' focuses on work permits

    Draft legislation under review targets negligent employers

    Source China Daily: http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2012-08/13/content_15668633.htm

    Foreigners without a work permit or an expert certificate — a license issued by the government to some foreign workers with proven talent and expertise in their field — could lose the cover of the "labor relationship" with the employer in the courts, even if they are under contract.

    The "labor relationship’’, a legal term, covers labor rights including social insurance, healthcare and compensation for work injury.

    The draft, which the Supreme People’s Court submitted to judges, professionals and the general public for feedback in the past month, has split opinion on whether stricter enforcement of the work-permit requirement will actually protect foreign workers from negligent employers trying to cut corners.

    China Daily’s request for a more detailed explanation was declined by the top court, since "the stipulation has not been passed and may undergo changes", it said.

    Liu Deheng, deputy chief of the labor dispute tribunal at Beijing’s Chaoyang district court, said the draft is meant to standardize judicial rulings regarding foreigners who come to China without a work visa but find work.

    A work visa, under China’s laws, is a premise to apply for a work permit.

    Chinese law stipulates that labor disputes have to go through arbitration before a lawsuit can be filed. This tends to add a considerable amount of time to the procedure.

    There has been a marked increase in labor disputes, Liu said.

    The labor dispute arbitration committee in Chaoyang received 14 cases from October 2010 to October 2011. The number surged to 75 from October 2011 to July.

    "More foreigners are turning to the law to protect their labor rights. It shows that the law is working and that they are willing to live in China for a considerable time, otherwise, the lawsuit-after-arbitration procedure is not cost effective," she said.

    "Requiring foreigners to obtain a work permit is compulsory and it offers legal guarantees."Chaoyang district, according to the district government’s website, is a major center of foreign business in Beijing. It has more than 3,000 foreign companies and more than 100 of the global top 500 companies have offices there.

    Labor disputes involving foreign employees, however, are treated differently in courts across the country, she said.

    In Beijing, if a lawsuit is filed, foreigners without a work permit can receive salaries owed to them.

    However, He Li, a labor lawyer, said he was concerned by the proposal since some foreigners do not have work permits because companies are reluctant to go to the trouble of doing the necessary paperwork.

    Liu said there are administrative regulations for these employers, although the draft law itself does not deal with companies failing to apply for permits.

    Wang Wenjie, who works in the human resources department at a Shanghai company, said the policy will probably affect foreigners working in small-scale companies as larger companies will have the resources to do the paperwork.

    The Ministry of Public Security said it is difficult to know how many foreigners are working in China without work permits, but most illegal employment seems to be concentrated in a few sectors, such as teachers, domestic helpers and workers at labor-intensive industries.

  • High Priest
    High Priest wrote:

    China has not come up with good policy in this sector. The more they come up with new policy to make it hard for laowai to be in China for work, the more they give opportunity to speculators to issue legally illegal visas at a higher cost. The interesting thing is that police working in the PSB have set up agencies to be collectimg cash from laowai. Strange!

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    Hahahaha ... light bulb time ... opp to start business to get "legally illegal visas" for Chinese and Asians in Australia ...

  • High Priest
    High Priest wrote:

    And who do you think those speculators work for??

    @Gullekian, they work for top top leaders from the PSB leaders. Once u are named top chief in a position there,it's an opportunity given to u to make cash.

    I've got a living experience, my friend was given a fake visa by the police working in the PSB. No one would even detect that it was fake even the police. He went to register to the police station and was given a temporary residence permit. He recommended his other friend, this police made a visa in 4 days. Which was astonishing, a Z visa with no working permit!

    This friend said, the visa is fake, my friend said no way! I even went to the police station to register, what are u talking about?

    My friend called another police working in the PSB to check if the visas are ok. He said they are ok at first, but promised to go and check in the system whether they are in there. When he went to check, he found out that they were fake. My friend went to report himself to the PSB.

    They interrogated him. He went to the office, and showed them who gave him the visa. And this police was even shouting to the other policemen!

    The case is still pending and my friend doesn't have his passport till now....

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    (continued) ... as the saying goes, what if the table is turned, and, say, this happens in an African country, and the "foreigners" are Chinese?

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    (continued) ... no, G, not actually a comparison ... but since you said:

    but China is becoming a super power, they have to open up....

    I will change the scenario to:

    what if the table is turned, and, say, this happens in USA, and the "foreigners" are any illegal foreign subjects?

    It is not a big secret that most countries, super power or otherwise, have fairly strict policies regarding illegal residents ... being a foreign subject myself, I can see why many people wanted to come to China, but it does also make little sense to allow illegal ones staying here ...

  • High Priest
    High Priest wrote:

    What Chinese law makers are doing is just mere ignorance. They make things complicated for everyone, but people know how to bend the rules.I know they are afraid to alleviate things as they fear spies. But it would be good for people to apply visas or working permit by themselves than giving more business to agents.

    When they asked my friend how much did u pay for ur visa? He said 10,000rmb.They as if they don't know how things work.

    I'm sure, in years to come, people come over to buy and sell. Some will be discouraged to live here.

  • High Priest
    High Priest wrote:

    @Godfather,

    what makes a document “Fake”?

    The visa looked real, but not recognized in the database of the BSP. But that visa comes from the PBS... I talked about this story to say that all the time there are new rules, but the policy makers don't get to root of the problem, rather than giving more opportunity to speculators.

    Apart from living and working in China, is there any other good the visa will do for you?

    What's that? It's always better to have a valid visa in each country one got to live! As for loan, I never needed one.

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    。。。

    (continued) ... ahhh ... and I thought this thread was "bombed" over the weekend ...

    China has a bright future, etc etc

    I will just wait for the RMB to rise ... rise ... and rise some more ...

    For example, in Canada if you're an illegal resident they cannot ship you back to your country just like that, you have your rights, even though you're illegal, you still have rights, and you can hire an immigration lawyer

    I am not familiar with the Canadian laws, I am not sure if I know the Australian ones ... but I once knew someone from Malaysia, who had overstayed and worked in Sydney for a while (maybe a year or two?) ... he was detained after he was caught, then sent back home in about a week or two, possibly without an opportunity for appeal ... so, Australia "immigration laws" dont seem to have much of what you called "human rights", of course, I am not 100% sure ...

    I do agree with human rights, and also agree that many of China's laws dont seem to have much of it, but, we also know that laws are different in every country, and as far as Chinese (immigration) laws are concerned, illegal means illegal ... yeah, some of you are so ready to jump up and say "but China allows this and that, which are all illegal" ... if your argument is that if China allows certain illegal activities, then it should allow illegal residents, think again ...

    but when they found out that their birth rate was going down and in a 50 years or so there would not be enough work force to support the older generation, they opened up immigration policy to bring new man power, because they needed working power....

    I dont keep up-to-date with the birth rate in China, but we know that the population has not stopped growing, so if there is ANYTHING that China does not need too many of, it is "people" ...

    What China needed was the foreign investment and technology,

    Agreed with the tech part, not too sure about the investment ... but I am probably wrong here ...

    but as you know a teacher with the proper credentials in the States or wherever will cost, and won't come here for a merely 10 to 15000 RMB a month, he/she can make a lot more in his/her own country.

    That's why any Tom, Dick or Harry can be a teacher in China, heehee ...

    you mentioned that in one of your previous threads... and they kept the door open...

    Huh? Me? Doubtful ... which one?

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    。。。

    (continued) ... and now, for the desert ...

    @Janice, you can see that this topic is solely for foreigners living in China if you can’t express your views in simple English so that foreigners can read your opinion, I advice you keep your fingers off the keyboard.

    Chicken, glad to see that you are back to your old self ... which line in the thread said "this topic is solely for foreigners living in China"?

    I know you have a registered trading Company in China why you did not give your friend a visa?

    Hahahaha ... there is always a reason ... and a very legal one, I am sure ...

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    Speaking of "aimless foreigners hovering around town disgracing themselves and their countries of origin" by being rude shitcunts,

    @Janice, you can see that this topic is solely for foreigners living in China if you can’t express your views in simple English so that foreigners can read your opinion, I advice you keep your fingers off the keyboard.

    This typically monolingual American is going to politely ask you to GTFO and take your "no dogs or Chinese allowed" nonsense with you, @Dogfucker the 2nd. Consider yourself fortunate that you're allowed to live here without reaching fluency in the Chinese language, and don't squander the locals show of good will by expressing the pretentious expectation that they should post in English in what is and always has been a multilingual forum.

    BTW, as a verb it is advise, not advice. gb2school.

  • Alex ^∞
    Alex ^∞ wrote:

    "no dogs or Chinese allowed"

    urban legend - never actually happened.

    PS I told you to change your avatar.

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    (continued) ...

    "no dogs or Chinese allowed"

    urban legend - never actually happened.

    Really?

  • Alex ^∞
    Alex ^∞ wrote:

    look it up

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    (continued) ... hahahaha ... didnt someone here once said "link, or it does not happen"? or in this case, "it does" ...

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    (continued) ... ...

    there’s no line that states “this topic is solely for foreigners” but am sure Chinese folks don’t need visa to live in China. Do they?

    When did you become smart? You still miss a bit though ... did you mean Chinese national, or Chinese descent? Technically, I am Chinese descent, but I still need a "visa" of some form ...

    Anyway, if it is NOT said that “this topic is solely for foreigners”, why cant Janice state her own opinion? It was not even offensive ... yes, you did say:

    if you can’t express your views in simple English so that foreigners can read your opinion, I advice you keep your fingers off the keyboard.

    Ahhh ... it's a "suggestion" (as I discussed with G in the other thread) that one should learn Chinese when he/she is in China, but it is unfortunate that you dont know Chinese ... remind me to do the same, next time you and Snake write in anything other than Chinese or English :)

  • Alex ^∞
    Alex ^∞ wrote:

    didnt someone here once said "link, or it does not happen"?

    You know dd, in science when one makes a positive claim, one is called upon to prove it with evidence. You cant make statements and then call upon others to 'disprove you if they can'. The no dogs or chinese sign never happened. I call upon you to prove that it did. Since youre an aging intellectual slob incapable of comprehending much outside the realm of teenage breasts and doraemon, here you go:

    From the wikipedia entry on Huangpu Park ( 黄浦公园)

    The Public Garden was closed to Chinese people between 1890 and 1928, and according to a popular myth, a sign at the park's gate read "No dogs or Chinese allowed". However, there is no evidence that the sign ever existed in this form. Period photographs show a different sign listing ten regulations, the first of which was "The Gardens are reserved for the Foreign Community", the fourth being "Dogs and bicycles are not admitted".[1] In any case, the banning of Chinese from Huangpu Park and other parks in China has remained in Chinese public mind as one of the many moments of humiliation by the Western powers in the 19th and early 20th century.[2] For instance, the legend is manifested in the Bruce Lee film Fist of Fury, where a scene taking place at Huangpu Park gate features a (fictitious) "No dogs and Chinese allowed" sign.

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)
  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    I thought Alex have silenced you

    Is that what he whispers in your ear at night? I know I'm having a hard time keeping up with kids who're posting more frequently now that school's out, but that doesn't mean I'm not posting here anymore.

    Chinese people were never banned from Huangpu Park. Oh wait, they were, and I'm a fucking wikipedophile looking to start an argument where none exists.

    I told you to change your avatar.

    I must not have heard. Change your face.

  • Alex ^∞
    Alex ^∞ wrote:

    Chinese people were never banned from Huangpu Park.

    You love misquoting :) I didnt say that, I said the sign you referenced is fictitious, so unrustle your jimmies, gnomefag. And change that avatar, youre a disgrace to watanabe and the genre.

    Change your face.

    Good one..ROFL. Youde swap faces with me given half a chance you poor little cretin.

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)
  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    You love misquoting :) I didnt say that, I said the sign you referenced is fictitious

    Who misquoted whom? I didn't say anything about a sign. I said to @Dogfucker, who got salty about Chinese people speaking Chinese, to leave the thread and take his "'no dogs or Chinese allowed' nonsense" with him. I was referring to colonialist attitudes, such as banning Chinese people from public places in China, which as you have admitted, totally did happen, you totally butthurt fuckwit.

  • Alex ^∞
    Alex ^∞ wrote:

    Who misquoted whom?

    You misquoted me. (As is often the case.)

    I didn't say anything about a sign.

    I didnt say you mentioned the sign, but you did reference it, and since the phrase you used is well known amongst those with any china savvy to be a myth, I thought it worth pointing out. Actually I thought you would have known better.

    Disappointed in you, and your insistance of sullying good anime with your fanfagdom.

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    The phrase I used is well known to the Chinese to refer to Qing-era colonialism regardless of whether the storied sign actually existed, or if the Boxers just said that it did for the lulz. Nothing about what I said spoke to its existence. You misquoted me by decontextualizing my own quotation, because you're resentful of my superior troll fu.

    Also, calling Cowboy Bebop anime is like calling Watchmen a comic book. l2pedantry

  • Alex ^∞
    Alex ^∞ wrote:

    The phrase I used is well known

    Well known, oft misquoted and certainly misunderstood - as demonstrated by both yourself and DD, thus it was certainly worth mentioning.

    Nothing about what I said spoke to its existence.

    Did I say you did? It was DD who asked "Really?" and I elaborated.

    You misquoted me by decontextualizing my own quotation

    I did not misquote you. You seem to not understand the difference between a quote and a reference. Decontextualization is your own perception of my comment, and skewed at that. I merely said that this sign never existed, then you got an emergency room case of butthurt. Untwizzle your jimmies.

    calling Cowboy Bebop anime is like calling Watchmen a comic book.

    more like calling spade a spade, na ge.

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    implying Dando was referring to a mythical sign and not colonialism

    alt text

  • Alex ^∞
    Alex ^∞ wrote:

    implying Dando was referring to a mythical sign and not colonialism

    Actually, what is quite funny is that you yourself even didnt realise that you were indeed referring to a mythical sign, though one which satirises the evils of colonialism.

  • 随便叫兽
  • Alex ^∞
    Alex ^∞ wrote:

    lol. first to call 'pedant' admits defeat.

  • 随便叫兽

Please login to post a reply to this thread.

WeLiveInBeijing

WeLiveInBeijing.com is a social community for people living in or traveling to Beijing.

Powered by: Bloc