Discussion » Beijing Life » How we the laowai became civilized.

  • A豆腐
    A豆腐 wrote:
    <p>Believe it or not, some sociologists have researched about it. The most famous works about it are the Norbert Elias´s books: </p> <p>The Civilizing Process, The History of Manners.</p> <p>The Civilizing Process, State Formation and Civilization.</p> <p>If you are one of those guys that can not understand why people spit in public. Or if you have on the tip of your tongue most of the time, sentences like: Why people are so uncivilized! You should read these books. Civilization, Civilized are pretty bastards concepts, we think using them, but we don´t know who are their fathers. A kind of trustee thought?</p> <p>Any case, We the laowai needed a lot of manners lessons and books during almost 400 years in order to get our current stage, for example:</p> <p>[...] Erasmus’s highly popular treatise De civilitate morum perilium (1530) stands at the threshold of this development. On the one hand, Erasmus deals with bodily functions with a medieval candor that would make later generations blanch. He states his disagreement with those who recommend repressing a fart “by compressing the belly,” warning that such a practice is unhealthy and criticizing “fools who value civility more than health” by suppressing natural sounds and smells. If gas can be expelled without sound, Erasmus writes, “that is best. But it is better that it be emitted with a noise than that it be held back.” <strong>Vomit, further, is not disgusting; what is disgusting is “holding the vomit in your throat.”</strong></p> <p>More <a href="http://www.credenda.org/index.php/Reviews/the-civilizing-process.html">link text</a> (yes, i know, the source sucks - credenda.org)</p> <p>Take a look, Google books <a href="http://books.google.com.hk/books?id=ThJJcfgga54C&amp;pg=PA72&amp;hl=zh-CN&amp;source=gbs_toc_r&amp;cad=4#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false">link text</a></p> <p>Western pals, From pro-spitters and total exhibitionists to non-spitters with a high sense of decency. Order your book now <a href="http://www.amazon.cn/The-Civilizing-Process-Sociogenetic-and-Psychogenetic-Investigations-Elias-Norbert/dp/0631221611/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1331623880&amp;sr=8-2">link text</a></p>
  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    And while you're at it, learn when and when not to hot link to build a harmonious virtual civilization of harmonized civic virtues.

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    Forgot to link.

    This is a very important aspect of netiquette and I see people violating it constantly.

    COME ON U GUISE

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    Not talking about OP, of course.

  • Simen Wangberg

    "War brings war. Only peace can bring peace."

    This apple...is...an apple.

    Apples can only bring more apples!

    :-|

  • A豆腐
    A豆腐 wrote:

    Those spoons reminds me that in their books, Norbert Elias mentioned that chinese nobility (s.XIX) considered rude and impolite to use knives and forks (little weapons) during meals. Savages use their hands to eat, barbarians use their weapons, civilized people use chopsticks.

    @Dando, maybe you can find interesting the part in which he describes how medieval ladies in Europe had as one of their favourite pastimes torture, specially other women (prisioners of war). ( The topic: The violent nature of men vs the peaceful nature of women)

    @Joep, about the violence in civilized states, he said goverments tend to hold a monopoly on violence (Hobbes.. bla bla...). To inwards their frontiers, an ideology against the violence is created (morale), citizens are unarmed and violence is banished (I think Tokugawa Shogunate is a clear example of this... and....I don't know why U.S. citizens still have rights to keep and bear arms, and I dont know if this is a good or bad idea) .

    But the main political purpose of no violence is prevent ¨centrifugal forces¨: secession, internal conflicts. The cult of no violence in civilized states is not a matter of ¨moral progress¨, is a matter of political control, security and stability. Civilized states dont have problems to use violence against their own citizens when these threaten country stability or protect their interests abroad (even when justice is on the side of the smashed guys.)

    alt text

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    Confucius say: Girl meet boy in park good, boy park meat in girl better.

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    Hahahahahaha ... oh my my my ... so I am not a man of honor, huh? By the way, I think you meant "chef", not "chief" ...

    alt text

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    (continued) ... that's why god made you beautiful ...

  • A豆腐
    A豆腐 wrote:

    About using knife and folks is being impolite during meals, it probably comes from 'Meng Zi', the book.

    Meng Zi say: A man of honour should be far away from a chief or kitchen place. As in those places, you will often see lives stock being killed and a chief is no better than a butcher.

    thanks a lot for that track!!! :D

  • 随便叫兽
  • A豆腐
    A豆腐 wrote:

    Did I get your attention, Scott? wow!

    .... but better, you go to play with Alex F or Cherry Bloosom, they can give you more entertainment :)

  • A豆腐
    A豆腐 wrote:

    yes Ladybirds, Good weather is coming, it is time for wax

  • №❶ Passioη

    or lawn-mowed

  • A豆腐
    A豆腐 wrote:

    or lawn-mowed

    Real men use wax, even on their 屁屁

  • №❶ Passioη

    Real men use wax, even on their 屁屁

    And their 小弟弟... ?

  • 随便叫兽
  • №❶ Passioη
  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    Brother Sharp is widely acknowledged by netizens to be a forced meme

    Ponyspam is legitimate because Friendship is Magic.

    alt text

  • Alex ^∞
    Alex ^∞ wrote:

    Like I said to Alex F -- you're in dangerous (racist) territory by stereotyping all Chinese people as "uncivilized".

    Arrrrg Scott - you are amusing at times but really can be a massive DOUCHE. First of all, you never "said" that to me, and second of all, I never sterotyped chinese people as uncivilized (or those lacking manners as being inferior human beings - as you postulated).

    Would you please do me (us all) the favour of either reading between the lines intelligently - or - taking what is written literally - chose either, but DONT put words in my mouth, (or lie about what you have "said" to me) u twat.

    PS. For the OP - one of my favorite antiquated "manners" books is the Hagakure (葉隠) by Yamamoto Tsunetomo - basically a book of etiquette to be applied by "upper class" or noble men in early 1700s Japan. Quite amusing, not to be taken entirely literally..perhaps boring to those with no interest in Japanese history but enlightening and insightful none the less.

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    Like I said to Alex F -- you're in dangerous (racist) territory by stereotyping all Chinese people as "uncivilized".

    Arrrrg Scott - you are amusing at times but really can be a massive DOUCHE. First of all, you never "said" that to me (1), and second of all, I never sterotyped chinese people as uncivilized (2) (or those lacking manners as being inferior human beings - as you postulated).

    (1): One of the lessons Alex F learned in China:

    Lack of manners maketh man. Apparently, the ruder, cruder, lewder and shrewder you are here, the better. You are considered "smart" if you can get away with it. Clever for making an extra RMB off a deal with a child, the sick or the weak (as long as you dont get caught); if not youre a softie for not trying. You will be punished by society for trying to do good, stepping out of line, or standing up for your belifes. Help a man on the street who fell over or got into some kind of accident and you will somehow end up having to pay his medical expenses - after all, if he can get away with it, he's smart and youre dumb.

    If this isn't a normative evaluation, I don't know what is.

    (2) Scooter implied, late and humorlessly, that you might be suffering from confirmation bias:

    Did you notice that for every asshole cutting in line there are 50 civilized Chinese people sighing with frustration, just like you? Nope, you only noticed the asshole and preceded to group all Chinese people in with him.

    Sadly, Scooter seemed to have at least initially failed to apprehend the ideological alignment and hence the dry satire of this OP, too, but that doesn't make you less of a yogurt-cunt.

    PS Samurai bookwank

    PS your sexuality is barely hidden by the leaves, you buttmassively buttdestroyed buttfaggot. Get your weeaboo shit out of our people's republic.

  • Alex ^∞
    Alex ^∞ wrote:

    @ 凸ಠ_ರೃ凸 (随便叫兽) : Reposting my comments does not serve to bolster your assertions, nor does it serve to discredit mine. Where in my post did I state, either, 1)Chinese people are "uncivilised" or that 2)people (chinese or otherwise) lacking in manners are inferior?

    The comment was more a take on the "dog eat dog" desparation of society caught in an authoritarian (neo feudalistic) paperchase. Manners, morality, social responsibility, accountability and basic humanism take a back seat in China when compared to the ongoing quest for cash. The same could be said of many places, but it is more of an accutely obvious trend right here in the middle kingdom and the gap between rich and poor eccentuates the problem (blah blah blah).

    PS. What does my sexuality (or the sexuality of seventeenth century samurai) have to do with this discussion? I just wanted to add to the discussion that centuries old books on manners and etiquette are not just a "laowai" or "western" folly. Though China is certainly not known for its "good manners" and formality, Japan, a distinctly non western country, is. If you read the book you will note that there are many many refereces to what was percieved as correct etiquette. There are notable similarities between it and Erasmus' work, though it (the Hagakure) was compiled about a century and a half later.

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    Like I said to Alex F -- you're in dangerous (racist) territory by stereotyping all Chinese people as "uncivilized".

    Pardon me, I mixed up the labels.

    Arrrrg Scott - you are amusing at times but really can be a massive DOUCHE. First of all, (1) you never "said" that to me , and second of all, (2) I never sterotyped chinese people as uncivilized (3) (or those lacking manners as being inferior human beings - as you postulated).

    1: Scott "said" that to you in as many words:

    Did you notice that for every asshole cutting in line there are 50 civilized Chinese people sighing with frustration, just like you? Nope, you only noticed the asshole and preceded to group all Chinese people in with him.

    2: He did so in response to your clear and explicit assertion that Chinese people are uncivilized:

    Lack of manners maketh man. Apparently, the ruder, cruder, lewder and shrewder you are here, the better.

    Did you use the word "uncivilized"? No, but if you're arguing that these traits constitute civility with Chinese characteristics, then you're up your own ass.

    3: You're making shit up:

    (or those lacking manners as being inferior human beings - as you postulated)

    Where the actual fuck did Scooter "postulate" this?

    You're grasping at straws, and you don't even have enough to make a man.

    I just wanted to add to the discussion that centuries old books on manners and etiquette are not just a "laowai" or "western" folly.

    Who in this thread was under this impression in the first place?

    There are notable similarities between it and Erasmus' work

    Then note them, you wikipedophile.

  • Alex ^∞
    Alex ^∞ wrote:

    1: Scott "said" that to you in as many words

    ....no he didnt. You are reading between the lines. As you said correctly, he implied I was "suffering confirmation bias"; but what he "implied" in this instance is actually not relevant to the debate.

    2: He did so in response to your clear and explicit assertion that Chinese people are uncivilized

    Again, I never made any "explicit assertion" that Chinese people are uncivilized, I merely noted that it appears to be considered advantageous to individuals for them to behave in a kind of 'machiavellian' manner. At no point did I say that this was an intrinsicly Chinese trait, or that it is exhibited by all Chinese. There was nothing racist about it, and the comment was more a general one relating to modern chinese urban culture.

    3: You're making shit up:...Where the actual fuck did Scooter "postulate" this?

    ....no, im not "making shit up". He postulated this as part of one of the comedic attempts at adding "loltxt" to my profile pic. Re-read the thread that you keep referring to here in this very thread and you will see it. It begins with a comment about the light behind me. I have kindly paraphrased for you here, you can thank me later: "If you think the glowing light behind my head makes me a messianic figure you dont even know. Check this: China has no art or culture! Those who lack manners are inferior human beings!" etc etc

    You're grasping at straws, and you don't even have enough to make a man. Who in this thread was under this impression in the first place?

    Err...... the OP?

    Any case, We the laowai needed a lot of manners lessons and books during almost 400 years in order to get our current stage

    So....even if the comment was 'tongue in cheek' it still warrented a little reminder that "we the laowai" (I took this to mean westerners - though I may have been wrong!) are not the only ones in the world who wrote old books about the development and application of manners and etiquette.

    Then note them, you wikipedophile.

    For your personal whimsy? No. Reading the books themselves will give you a better and more nuanced understanding. Im not going to provide a "CliffsNotes" synopsis for you like the kind you relied on to get you through highschool. Suffice to say, both books have a lot to comment on regarding how to behave in the presence of others, aka manners and etiquette, contemporary to the times in which they were written.

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    Scott implied something and you inferred it correctly, but he didn't "say" it

    rudeness, crudeness and lewdness are "Machiavellian" behaviors

    when OP said laowai write books, he implied that ONLY laowai write books

    didnotreadlol.gif

    PROTIP: "Scarequotes" and >greentext are used for "implying"

  • Alex ^∞
    Alex ^∞ wrote:

    Scott implied something and you inferred it correctly, but he didn't "say" it

    Half right. You inferred some of it correctly.

    rudeness, crudeness and lewdness are "Machiavellian" behaviors

    Some behaviours which I consider rude and crude (but not neccessarily lewd) are also considered Machiavellian. Some but not all. I am correct in my considerations.

    when OP said laowai write books, he implied that ONLY laowai write books

    Nope, he implied (or I percieved that he wanted to imply) that only laowai wrote classic books hundreds of years ago on the subject of manners. I like how you conveniently omit the last part; but your troll skills are waning. Same goes for Scott's. Looks like the pair of you have been neatly dispatched :)

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    I understand Scooter better than you do

    This is absolutely nothing to get so mad jelly huttburt mctableflippenstein about. You can have him. He's all yours.

    Mind you, he's a biter and a scratcher.

    But I do think he didn't register any objection to my inference, and as it was his implication he would seem to be the final authority on its truthiness, yes/no?

    Machiavelli was a Chinaman who lacked manners, was rude, crude, and lewd... Clever for making an extra RMB off a deal with a child, the sick or the weak (as long as you dont get caught); if not youre a softie for not trying. You will be punished by society for trying to do good, stepping out of line, or standing up for your belifes. Help a man on the street who fell over or got into some kind of accident and you will somehow end up having to pay his medical expenses - after all, if he can get away with it, he's smart and youre dumb.

    You're completely and utterly wrong in your definitional usage of Machiavellian, and in any case it's still a stereotype, you meth-addled shitnozzle.

    Hagakure has relevance to the conversation because it is an old book...

    ...about manners!

    According to OP, Erasmus was critical of manners when the conflicted with other priorities. Hagakure concerns the samurai's transition from a warrior class to an administrative class. But what the actual fuck is the connection between Erasmus and the Hagakure, besides they were concerned about "how humans should behave"?

  • Simen Wangberg

    "futiley [is that right?]"

    No.

    :-D

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    @Scooter,

    Wuz dat from Barton Fink?

    It helps that I can see where he's coming from (a mile a-fucking-way, too) as it seems to me that the sharp trajectory of the Chinese economic development pattern presents many convenient tangential incentives for sociopathic behaviors.

    But merely being crass and unrefined is a behavioral artifact of the revolutionary days when the political climate made it very desirable for one to go out of their way to not effect an elitist attitude. Much to the lament of this casually screaming beast, that tide reached its high-water mark quite a while ago. And since many of our Western notions of politeness are inextricably tied with the aristocratic classes, it is no surprise that they conflict with the habitual vestiges of socialist populism.

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    inb4 he shows us the life of the mind

  • Alex ^∞
    Alex ^∞ wrote:

    I understand neither of you, nor your collective desire to post insessant reams of bollocks on this website (though still suspect you get paid for it, in some way).

    But I do think he didn't register any objection to my inference

    He wouldnt, considering the fact that when youre not hot linking each other to 4chan youre electronicly slapping one another on the back for posting on behalf of the other, even when what you both write is completely without merit and devoid or reason, meaning or truth. The only thing that matters to either of you is lulz and the fantasy of a quivering John Goodman, apparently.

    You're completely and utterly wrong in your definitional usage of Machiavellian,

    No, im not. Wiki says that the oxford dictionary says that Machiavellianism is : the employment of cunning and duplicity in statecraft or in general conduct. Trickery, lies, cunning etc, all of these things are quite rude, some of them are crude (some are refined - but not polite; this is a different issue). Regardless, it was an apt use of the term.

    and in any case it's still a stereotype

    Your point being? Stereotypes have value - when recognised and defined by the majority, they clearly indicate macro trends. Since that is what we are talking about here, it is pertinent. People like to whine because stereotypes dont apply to the micro environment - boo hoo - they still have value. I understand that you may have got butthurt having been stereotyped as a child growing up in america or whatever, im sorry for you, really but still, its time to get over that.

    Hagakure concerns the samurai's transition from a warrior class to an administrative class.

    No, it does not concern this at all. You misread wikipedia :( It concerns conduct, manners and etiquette. It is a book of anecdotal advice for samurai on how to conduct themselves. Just read it instead of copypasting internet chaff.

    But what the actual fuck is the connection between Erasmus and the Hagakure, besides they were concerned about "how humans should behave"?

    Why do I bother explaining? It means nothing to you as you havent and probably wont read either works. WHATEVERFUCKITOKLETSGO! What you mentioned is the connection, however is not as broad, generic and meaningless a connection as you would like to have casually observing forumites believe. Notably, both books go into expansive and specific detail regarding ETIQUETTE, and a CRITIQUE of it, contemporary to the times in which they were written. Beyond this I cant help you :( again.

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    conspiracy theories! tinfoil hats!

    I don't know what hot linking means but I'll use it anyway to make it seem like I'm hip to their choadally 1337 interweb jargon

    implying Machiavellian behavior is uncivilized

    deception and manipulation are just rudeness and crudeness by other names

    essentialist equivocations

    Stereotypes have value

    one laowai's perceived experience of the majority of Chinese people

    hagakure is too deep for WLIB and therefore I am incapable of concisely describing any of its contents as it is a metaphilsophallical black box that transforms whatever consciousness passes through it completely and irrevocably but leaving them incapable of describing the process whatsoever

  • Mari Vidste
    Mari Vidste wrote:

    >I understand neither of you, nor your desire to post insessant reams of bollocks on this website >posts detailed response to said reams of bollocks

    >disdains 4chan
    >uses memespeak

    alt text

    Interesting. Though he has probably spent years in pretentious condescension towards the idea of people arguing on the internet, Alex is clearly beginning to embrace this game and seems to have the makings of a worthy adversary. Not for me of course, but Scott for sure.

    And I like his purview.

    The only thing that matters to either of you is lulz...

    Did you hear that? That's judment. Of lulz. Of course there is no shortage of art-loving moralfags like Alex, but none of them can write. Alex, though...did you see this?

    as you would like to have casually observing forumites believe

    This kind of key word cramming is an element of style, my friends. Of course the sentence this was taken from is poorly written and grammatically flawed, but at least there is a moment of style here compared to someone like RePETE, whose words are made of dog hair and mold, while mine are all iron and FEAR.

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    Didn't you urge Scooter to put his mug up on his profile for the sake of fairness, like some kind of jelly-jawed bleeding heart concerned with helping some inferior organism realize its full potential?

  • Mari Vidste
    Mari Vidste wrote:

    Didn't you urge Scooter...

    恩, I did indeed do that. My heart turned to jelly, and my jaw began to bleed. For Alex. What can I say? His earnestness and concern for proper diction strike a chord with me. I am reminded of a previous self, before I had seen the un-unseeable.

    alt text

    Meanwhile, Scott did not reply and clearly prefers an unfair battlefield. Way to fight like a chigger, Scott.

    But Dando. How to best indicate sarcasm here? Your above post is fucking hilarious, I laughed merrily, but I don't like how indenting it minimizes it on the page. I also don't like that gayass light gray column. On the other hand I do not like my way either. Let's committee on the best way to indicate that we are taking a position of superiority (greentexting) on this site.

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    But Dando. How to best indicate sarcasm here? ... I don't like how indenting it minimizes it on the page. I also don't like that gayass light gray column. ... Let's committee on the best way to indicate that we are taking a position of superiority (greentexting) on this site.

    IKNORITE? This question has been keeping me up at night. SRSLY. I don't like the grey bar either, but in markdown it is roughly equivalent to raw (pre-green) chantext. And besides, the beauty of

    implying

    is that it sows confusion: Is it sarcasm? Is it a direct quote? Is it a fair summary? Is it a total fabrication? On 4chan, it could have been any of these things, or something totally different depending on the type of thread. In some hyper-advanced chanthreads, it is used to indicate stream of consciousness writing. And when I say stream I mean a raging torrent of murky piss.

    By the power of > greytext![br]

    one can not only read between the lines, but reach in with both hands and yank those lines apart to create a cavity within the space-time continuum, a gaping void of ambiguous logic that is not just fuzzy, but bristly like steel wool caked with carbonized crack residue. This is how a troll creates negative space within a conversation.

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    stop liking the things I don't like

  • Mari Vidste
    Mari Vidste wrote:

    Testing grey text:

    be "Kyle"

    receive 64 box of crayons

    tell Crayola to fuck off with their stupid colors

    use white crayon on white paper

    show mom

    be Kyle's mom

    'that's very good Kyle'

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    〉CONAN used GREYTEXT[br] 〉It's super effective!

  • Mari Vidste
    Mari Vidste wrote:

    And thus

    alt text

    became

    alt text

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    ಥ_ಥ

    ...it's so beautiful...

    plz do a .gif screencapping both of those .gifs, synchronized

  • Mari Vidste
    Mari Vidste wrote:

    So...a .gif that plays two .gifs? Googling...

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    And thus

    alt text

    became

    alt text

  • 随便叫兽
  • Alex ^∞
    Alex ^∞ wrote:

    Gather round:

    "conspiracy theories! tinfoil hats!" half j/k but not really

    "i dont know what hot linking is" wow you rlly got me there........ :/ (weak)

    "implying Machiavellian behavior is uncivilized" "implying" that it is antisocial.

    "deception and manipulation are just rudeness and crudeness by other names" ....nope. rather parts of one another, would you not agree it is pretty rude and disrespectful to decieve people, regardless of whether or not you profit from it?

    "essentialist equivocations" apt

    "Stereotypes have value" in lieu of more detailed info; yes.

    "perceived experience of the majority of Chinese people" some, "majority" stated where?

    "hagakure is too deep for WLIB" im sure you could read it if you give it a try. it's not heavy but reads a little strange. you'll find it devoid of anything of serious literary value but it floats along and provides insight into one man's way of thinking.

    "posts detailed response to said reams of bollocks" your lucky day - free education sponsored by a compassionate soul.

    "disdains 4chan, uses memespeak" yes, if i want to be understood by a buttplug I need to speak buttplug. (leaves the question, why communicate with a buttplug? - sympathy/compassion)

    "inferior organism" how dare you call anything inferior!?! u racist bigot! trolololo

    "defend bigotry" ...or define the meaning of a word (cited only in reference to a citation)

    "for the pussy".....really........in here?

    "earnestness" ....but no quivering

    "unfair battlefield" its ok scott, i wont judge

    "...blathered about here changes anything" correct.

    "refer to his original offensive paragraph" sorry for your butthurt...not rlly

    "already picked apart at length" clumsily and without meaninful findings or conclusion, mocked every step of the way, corrected repeatedly, resulting in no change to the status quo (im right).

    "rigid etiquette" does not equal manners.

    "3000-year-old books of etiquette" well done, youve identified the point i made by mentioning the hagakure - that the OPs was moot. i wont say congratulations, you were too slow.

    "up until 40 years ago" when the best thing EVER happened in China, right scott? (u utter douche)

    "but rude became all the rage during the Cultural Revolution" a good thing too? (by your implication.)

    "Maybe they're just sick of so many millennia of etiquette that they're retro now" ..retro as in..? (jibberish)

    "You're an asshole for expecting them to conform to your interpretation of "manners"." ..cos I expected so much (nothing).

    "Your Japanese etiquette" (not mine)

    "likely came from China" (sort of)

    "The other 98% of Chinese people who are not cheating con-artists also hate the assholes." ? even assholes hate assholes, what does this add? I would say that less than 2% of Chinese are cheating conartists, but more than 2% are rude and ill mannered (yes, right - by my interpretation). Note: this has nothing whatsoever to do with farmers "learning etiquette".

    "...because my Chinese friends are some of the most compassionate people I've ever met." you left out ^shrill^ and !!!!!111one - dont cry drama queen. my chinese friends are compassionate too, towards me, and their friends, and their families. Thats not really the test though, is it? "The test" is about being compassionate to people unrelated to you, strangers and society at large. We all know that 98% of Chinese dont give a shit about Chinese society, only raising their relative position within it. It is one thing to help out your friend, it is another to help a stranger. It is one thing to consider your roomie's health when youre thinking of spraying toxic waste all over your apartment (in your case talking/breathing), it is another to consider the fate of those 500 miles away, living near that factory you operate. Though this point is almost an entirely separate topic, you know in your heart of heart, scott, that getting help from a member of ones guanxi network isnt a challenge. Getting it from a passerby may be, and if youre unknown - you dont matter. Regardless of your whining about how compassionate your friends are (some anecdotal bs) it doesnt mean jack - you know that they would/could get fucked by a random, just as easily as your scrawny cowardly ass.

    "You say manners make a man, I say his company and deeds do." trite. manners are deeds anyway, fool.

    "Glad you just read Orwell." yeah, rlly - just now, i r exprtz now!!!! :/ fool.

    "That's one famous case (a couple others similar)," .....so..quite a few cases then, scott? and the ones that never made it to your beloved weibo? (fool)

    "Because everyone in China was outraged" - yeah, but nothing changed. What does that tell you, scott? (fool)

    "Chinese people helping each other all the time." yeah like in restaurants and stuff. u know, places where they get paid to.

    "Pompous foreign know-it-alls who come over here to tell Chinese people everything they're doing wrong" projection. I suspect, scott, you were one of those that came here thinking he could "help" Chinese people, then discovered boo hoo no one is going to listen to you, lol. I came/was posted here to get paid to do things that most local people cant. The OP of the other thread asked for opinions so I gave them - they were not my defining treatise on China, rather a comparative (admitedly a 'devils advocate' style, negatively slanted, in the style of this forum) glance at the place in comparison to others I have spent time in.

    "are some of the most despicable scum I've ever seen, so I'm done addressing him." youve never seen me, and yet you are still addressing me, albeit indirectly (because you are a tried and tested coward, as is well known on this forum).

    "The interesting fact is we can talk about our own shit but cant stand foreigners to criticize it" I get the impression that scott is just a yank that thinks he is 中国通 doing China a service as a "rectifyer" troll. it's quite touching (pathetic) yet also slightly creepy.

    "because we assume they only have scratched a shallow surface of our country" yes, this is assumed every time, regardless of whether or not said foreigner actually has a superior comparative understanding of social conditions in a global/historical context than your average chinese sociology professor. We all know perfectly well that white skin and round eyes precludes one from ever understanding any sinographic subject better than a native or beyond the simplest most basic something blahblah bs.

    "I appreciate how you defend us" me too, dont bother, not worth ur time.

    "This is how a troll creates negative space within a conversation" good analysis.

  • Mari Vidste
  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    alt text

    100+ hours in MS Paint

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    manipulative, cunning, deceiving : Machiavellianism/antisocial personality disorder :: rude, crude, lewd : uncivilized/barbarism

    fix'd

    "are some of the most despicable scum I've ever seen, so I'm done addressing him." youve never seen me, and yet you are still addressing me, albeit indirectly (because you are a tried and tested coward, as is well known on this forum).

    Sounds like something 阿姨恶啦 would say of Scoot.

    I thought that butt-torn Toryism seemed familiar.

    But what kind of britfag calls someone a "DOUCHE"?

    You dishonor your ancestors.

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    I won't be anally content until we perform the following content analysis:

    Let's go through the forum archives and see just how "well known" Skaught is for "cowardice".

    I will bet ALL of my Internets that the bulk of such references come from Ayiela, Nicole Webber, Alex 1.0, Archbishop, or some other anally aggrieved Angloid. The same fraudster started this tired, trite trope of an insult and has repeated it ad nauseam ever since Skaught shared that story about getting assaulted in Sanlitun.

    Here is the problem with trolling with a false identity: eventually you get caught by a bored Dando, because you can't simultaneously feign newfaggotry AND claim to be in the know about the oldfags.

    I'd say LURK MOAR but I don't think this one learns. Sorry, @Conan, but I think the lad's butthurt is terminal. He's been pwned so badly he can't even blockquote anymore, because he's afraid he might accidentally 〉imply something.

  • Mari Vidste
    Mari Vidste wrote:

    artfag

    no sense of presentation

    Stopped reading at "Gather round"

    Deeply disappointed in my horse but not ready to put him down.

  • Alex ^∞
    Alex ^∞ wrote:

    "What makes you think I give a damn about helping anyone?" Maybe not anymore, (not even yourself) but perhaps you used to. Then you came to China, found nowhere to hang out until wlib took you under its wing. You stayed for too long and became something of a local e-fixture. Like a drunk thats always in the same bar or a failed mime (meme?) that haunts the same street corner.

    "you're no different from EVERY foreigner here" Except for those who actually CANT do things (excluding teaching english [ROFL], travel, study) that locals can. I didnt drift over here like directionless flotsom then find my niche in life as a troll on a foreign language pickup website (beyond tragic).

    "*I troll idiots and then laugh my ass off *" ....or, more likely you quiver and repeat. I doubt you get that much enjoyment out of it these days. The likelyhood is your warped ego feels COMPELLED to respond.

    "Now you've moved on to desperately trying to find some sort of insult" yes, its a frantic search "trying to find some sort of insult" trololol rlly? - no

    "in the fact that I defend China"..as valiently and as naively as could be expected for a piece of talentless, directionless flotsom - but thats not even where i get t3h lulz...

    "This just in: it's a bitch for Chinese people to engage in such conversations in ENGLISH" Lol, what does this have to do with anything? feeble strawman... oh wait, let me guess, youre standing in and "defending" all the chinese that cant speak english?! You're the voice try and understand it, make a noice and make it clear, scoo00o00o00otter!! lawlzzzz

    "so it's no wonder losers with low self-esteem are insulting the place so much" you mean "insulting" YOU (actually, just calling you out for being a sopping wet queef rag).

    "to make their own pathetic existence seem not so bad." .....said the self-proclaimed troll that has found a niche for himself on the forums of a second rate foreign language pickup website. 'Irony' doesnt begin...

    alt text

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    @Skaught,

    implying that would not be masturbation

    @Conan,

    Deeply disappointed in my horse but not ready to put him down.

    Fair 'nuff. Now that I look back, the Hans Landa was a "nailed it" moment.

    alt text

    I'm all out of lulz for the day. Here's an oh so exploitable parting shot to celebrate Alex's journey into the heart of darkness.

    alt text

  • Alex ^∞
    Alex ^∞ wrote:

    "raise your hand if you've been arrested for making a political statement at Tiananmen." Oh shit ure my hero scott i had no idea how brave and retro (?lolz) you were - LOL. So which was it? drifted here like flotsom or came out of a misplaced sense of self-righteousness and ultraistic desire to help the chinese defend against both the evil gov at home and the "racist bigotry" put out by horrid foreign influences on second rate dating websites? (one or the other, plz) oh no wait shit, politically protesting in tiananmen sq is a horrid foreign influence wtf !?! :( :(

    "if I reveal it, Alex will accuse me of coming to China to help people" lol u wanna have it both ways? naah you dont, its a well known fact that you only like men...no more talk of gross stuff like "both ways".

    "Maybe she'll finally punch his V-card" lol...im quivering with anger scott - revel in it, live for it, u got nothing else! ROFL

    "caught by a bored Dando" a bored, jobless, pointless, hapless, hopeless, helpless etcetcetc. get out your pipe and deerstalker and indentify this 'fake' newfagg, u cant cos im not.

    "He's been pwned so badly he can't even blockquote anymore" he has a job, rather than being able to devote all his time to "presentation" in a trolling sesh.

    Joining WLIB, $0. T-shirt with "I protested at tiananmen but only got this lousy t-shirt to show for it" printed on the back - 元10. Being wrongly idendified by paranoid resident trolls as some anonymous past member that has caused untold butthurt, sweat, tears and quivering to the resident trolls - PRICELESS.

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    Skaught's "cowardice" is "well known" to only you and, suspiciously, a cluster of similarly unlulzy Tory dingleberries.

    Coincidence?

    I think not. You is samefaggin'.

    If I were wrong, and I'm not, it would be very easy to prove it with a quick search of the forums. In fact, if you can find more instances of other folks calling Skaught a coward than I can find of the alleged sockpuppets mentioned upstairs, I will hand in my badge and my gun and stop posting for a whole month.

    You needn't wager anything. Not like you have a face to lose anyway.

    inb4 too busy (replying)

  • Alex ^∞
    Alex ^∞ wrote:

    you say "severely dated" i say olden but golden. and apt.

    ps. if anyone (scott, dando, conan etc) can prove im "samefaggin" they will get the respect they dream of. (dont worry, its not coming true)

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    disregard wager

    nothing to lose anyway

    clearly demonstrate extreme intellectual cowardice the likes of which make Skaught's alleged cowardice pale in comparison

    still posting

    too busy not reading hagakure

    brb new profile

  • Alex ^∞
    Alex ^∞ wrote:

    cos youve already lost

    cos youve already lost

    well documented, the butthurt proves > than alleged.

    still winning

    "busy"

    ....nope

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    be Alex F

    attempt greytext

    use second person pronouns

    address target directly instead of passive aggressively borrowing perspective and forcing inference

    doingitrong.jpg

  • Simen Wangberg

    adflk256;kl;lhvl][ #{^%P ! P~``

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    be wazi

    witness epic fail

    have stroke

  • Mari Vidste
    Mari Vidste wrote:

    be stroke

    have no hands

    cannot type

    must send message

    see wazi

    SEIZE HIM

    adflk256;kl;lhvl][ #{^%P ! P~``

    everythingwentexactlyasplanned.avi

  • Alex ^∞
    Alex ^∞ wrote:

    ...still winning

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    here's your merit badge:

    alt text

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    Yay let's get back on topic.

    "it's a bitch for Chinese people to engage in such conversations in ENGLISH" wow, what can i say, so open-minded aren't you..? Chinese are now excluded from English conversations..especially when they are about china and chinese people.

    "It's a bitch" means it's difficult or inconvenient, not that it is impossible. Intelligent Chinese people wisely excluded themselves from this "debate" when it became an obvious pissing contest.

    Then you wandered in and said "This is no longer about lack of manners in china anymore, is it.. Some more subtle reasons there.."

    Subtle? No. Too deep for you? Maybe.

    And how disappointed i am to see you end up resorting to dirty words to make your point.

    I'm disappointed you cannot acknowledge that this has been a historic thread in trolling, and that you seem to have missed the bigger joke about civility.

    will not read, lol

  • №❶ Passioη

    Relax Tara.. you're making it too obvious between you an Alex F...

    If I didn't know better I'd say, Get a Room You Two ;) or pay me in my most unique talent to re-write fate :)

    ========================

    BTW, how the laowais became civilized was by criticizing everything non-them

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    Seriously trolling

    ;)

  • Simen Wangberg

    I had a NO-FUN STROKE because none of this is FUN!

    :-{

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    Embrace the greytext.

    BECAUSE ONCE YOU GO GREY

    YOU DON'T GO... UH... AWAY...

    Like this thread.

  • Simen Wangberg

    I cannot into it

    :-/

    Actually, it was more like didn't read lol, and then I just got frustrated and hit the keyboard because I don't know anything of it's going on in this place, here, the webb0r.

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    I shall explain greytext and its uses with a rage comic. Tomorrow. Or whenever I feel like it.

    All you need to know about greytext is that it disrupts a person's ability to quote and respond, because you're not actually saying anything.

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    In fact, I don't even have the time to follow up this one anymore. I've made my point so whatever you infer from here i can't be bothered to get back.

    still in thread

    still not reading

    implying anyone in this thread was speaking l33t unironically

    implying "serious trolls" git'r'done at night instead of during office hours

    implying she knows the difference between sarcasm and genuine stupidity

    implying anyone gives a shit about an article about cyber-bullying from the back of a cereal box

    implying

    mfw

    alt text

  • 随便叫兽
  • Simen Wangberg

    "Lee Hannon of China Daily -- I wonder if he got a 50-center bonus for that, or if he really feels that threatened with his foreigner coolness."

    Ahahahaha. Methinks he got the bonus. I remember when that thing came out I was like wtffff and then I was like DID read lol. And actually I kind of agree with him on a few points.

    Anyway, I think Joep was referring to the message boards on TBJ, which are definitely awful.

    That cat thing is funnay

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    And actually I kind of agree with him on a few points.

    Probably because bitching about hipsters is the hippest thing in all of hipsterdom. I hadn't even fully moved into my 山寨四合院 before I was already filled with the most incredible self-loathing for my part in gentrifying a threatened neighborhood. I think that's where I was when I read that article the first time.

    For some reason though I remembered the writer as being Chinese. Hmm.

    Just then, a clash of plates could be heard crashing to the floor of the restaurant, prompting the white American to bemoan: "Oh, it must be a foreigner." To which I inquired: "What does that make you?"

    Indeed, what does that make you China Daily guy? If not hip to our game, then what?

    Anyway, I think Joep was referring to the message boards on TBJ, which are definitely awful.

    En. The only time I ever used TBJ was one savagely successful troll in which I asked for the Chinese equivalent of 420, learned it was "二百五," and found a roommate all in one thread.

    I never returned.

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    So.

    alt text

    Forum raid?

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