When people told me Beijing is a dirty city, even dirtier than other metropolis around the world, I didn't believe it. Because I have never lived in another country, but I was convinced by people's real talk and my own feelings that life in Beijing is like marijuana, people go crazy easily, get lost easily, lose control easily. During the day, you can see an old historical Beijing which is so peaceful, at night Beijing sinks, people get wasted, forget about who they are. I guess that is also the reason why people in love with Beijing,everything is cheap and accessible. People need to have fun, people need to enjoy life, one thing should not be forgotten is to be responsible, for yourself and for others.

Well Joy, as long as you are responsible for yourself, everything should be okay, right?

I have to agree, in comparison, Beijing is not a clean city.

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Hahahahahaha ... I do miss the old Beijing that I visited in 1982 ...

I agree with the premise and I fell in love with Beijing for similar reasons, but...

life in Beijing is like marijuana, people go crazy easily, get lost easily, lose control easily.

WTF. Did you just finish watching Reefer Madness?

I'm not even chink but I sincerely wish beijing was like fucking marijuana

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Hahahahahaha ... I just read from the mobile news that a noodle shop in 宁夏银川 put poppy seed into their noodles, you should go there :)

If the municipal gubbermint did substitute all the pollution in the air with cannabis smoke, it would greatly improve the livelihoods of all residents, and achieve unprecedented levels of harmony.

It's good to see different opinions, this topic need to be discussed and completed.

I'm sure there's much more weed-like cities/countries other than here ~

I think the OP has never touched cannabis and merely selected it as a generic illegal drug, but I could be wrong.

With consideration for the traits the OP listed, I think a more fitting narcotic analogy would be between Beijing and a dissociative like diethyl ether or ketamine.

I gave her the universe and she gave me the dirty look

ಠ_ರೃ Thank you for the analogy,you right, i ve never touched cannabis, so I m glad you feel what I want to say.

I don't know but I haven't seen a city like Beijing as far as toxins go.

but I heard Mexico city and Mumbai are pretty bad.

You are damn right! Beijing is heavy polluted with white trash and chinese farmers.

How do those chinese farmers pollute this city? Most of them, before come to this city, they didnt know what was a sanitary napkin or toilet paper, they used tree leaves to clean their dirty meat holes. Now they use the new stuff, but they still throw their shitty and bloody rubbish in the fucking street. Indiscriminate farting or burping also create toxic air pollution.

Conclusion, Overpopulation of trash (laowai or laowaidi) causes pollution.

Beijing at night = sin city haha.

It's much dirtier than Shanghai. People spit a lot here.

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Sorry, China. I've been living in you for a few years now, and your food is really great...

but wow, things are dirty here. I understand a lot of it is just rural people, who don't have any concept of sanitation or cleanliness or whatever, cos they're used to literally living in holes in the ground, but...

this place is really dirty. Sorry. I've met perfectly intelligent, well-educated people here who clearly have no idea how bacteria or viruses work. I won't even get into the TCM stuff.

Public health education is pretty much a hugeass joke here, and it's reflected in the way people treat themselves and their environment. I've heard of landlords in Beijing who prefer to rent to foreigners because they treat the property more carefully than Chinese - I don't have anything to back that up, it's just what I've heard.

Just stay true to yourself, and you can survive in any given environment

keep your faith, do what you want to do. live will be better

All you, Go back to your fucking Towns in the mountains or in the forests, and enjoy your clean life there, shitting in holes digged in the ground, riding pigs on the way to work or whatever you fucking grasseaters do in your farmerland.

isn't it the way big cities are?

Well, that's what you get if you're the capital of a country with 1.3 B people, minus the expats. On second note, public transportation can't get any cheaper elsewhere.

Beijing at night = maze it's quite dirty in daylight , so that's why it looks ok in the night

But you cannot hardly see any stars in the night sky.

The lights of the city make it hard to see the stars at night. If you go to a dark place, far from the city, you will be able to see the stars much better.

@ Psyche , Chill with that "chink" shit you dirty mutha.

That's it, you asked for it-(can of tuna)

To be clean, one has to understand what "hygiene" means, to be humane, one has to know what "humanity" is. Unfortunately, in my country, right is wrong, freedom is slavery, ergo, dirty is clean, sanity is craziness.

Beijing is not only a dirty place, but a crazy place, like anywhere else in China. People pray, weep, live and die here in despair. 60% of the population is positive of H Pylori infection, almost 10% are hepatitis B positive, increasing numbers of people die of lung cancer due to air pollution. Trading of human flesh and organs has established a cross-border network of businesses, the country is rife with constant violent crimes and anti-social behaviors. The bureaucratic system here basically develops on hereditary descendent. Due to the common belief that " marriage shall be well-matched of social status", the population is genetically degenerating and people start to look the same. Also, people trade their kidneys for an iPad. See, now you wouldn't say "dirty" is a big deal in any sense. :)

But, to look at the bright side of life, despite all these craziness, if you still survive in this city, you may well establish that: 1, you must be good at sex; 2, you certainly have some skills to keep yourself financially secure without being screwed for money; 3, you have evolved into an anti-radiation dude(or duddess) with various anti-bodies in your immune system and an incredible digestive system which can basically absorb anything from the sewer. 4, regardless of your age, you are a 200% realistic and down to the earth blood-sucker. God, I love Beijing!

oh my....this sounds bad, but I'm sure every big or small city has its goods n bads.

If you are still living there in Beijing and not getting out any time soon, I think you really should look at the bright side and be positive. Discriminate and criticise a city you are actually living in long term or call home, which provides you with everything you need (or don't need), isn't a fair nor clever thing to do.

At the end of the day, it's not where you are that matters really, it's how you adapt and thrive in the environment that you HAVE TO stay in that counts.

If you can't adapt and appreciate somewhere as it is, and you can't make any changes to turn it into something you like, maybe you should move somewhere else which you prefer (that's if you are CAPABLE to do so)!

Beijing isn't asking you to stay, it will always be there, but you, you can be anywhere in the world if you CAN!

。。。

Hahahahaha ...

Beijing isn't asking you to stay

True ... something else, or rather, someone, is ... I am "capable". but at the same time, I am also not ... kind of sad, isnt it?

@叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹):

But you rn't ditching Beijing much from wot I read, so u'r safe :-)

I just can't stand all the incapable haters, they don't appreciate the good things, instead they emphasise the bads...why the hell r they still there then?? Ya know wot I mean?! haha....

you have evolved into an anti-radiation dude(or duddess) with various anti-bodies in your immune system and an incredible digestive system which can basically absorb anything from the sewer.

Beijing has nothing on India or many other countries, in terms of being dirty or being underdeveloped, so shut the fuck up and appreciate what you have, you moaning, whining bitches.

Plus, being dirty is a frame of mine of your own environment and what you're personal standards are. You can't compare one city to another fairly, without taking into account the entire countries situation and living standards.

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Hahahahahaha ... you are actually "older" than me on this site, but perhaps relatively new in the forum, or, you just dont come here often enough ... because for about a year, or two, I have been bitching about Beijing and China as much as any others you have seen here, or otherwise (only if I can find those old threads) ... and I sometimes still do ...

... on the other hand, being on the lower part of the "pyramid", I have learnt to appreciate the "cheap-ness" of Beijing, e.g. I remember having a tasty, though simple, lunch for the mere price of 3rmb back in the 2006-07 era, and for that kind of money, "dirtiness" is something I can compromise ...

In general ... picking the thorns, while not smelling the roses (or something like that), is a common behaviour of many ... but many, as funny and ironic as it might seem, prefer to show their good behaviour when meeting friends or developing relationships, while hiding their ugliness ... ...

Oh total, Kyle!

"... so shut the fuck up and appreciate what you have, you moaning, whining bitches..."

instead of moaning, whey don't you start with little things and try to make some minus changes? Maybe pick up the litters n put them in the bin, or go n tell the pple who spitting in the street to stop, or just shut ur mouth, stop breathing to minimise the air polution??

During the day, you can see an old historical Beijing which is so peaceful, at night Beijing sinks, people get wasted, forget about who they are...

@叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹):

Oh in that case, I give it to ur honesty about the older posts. I don't normally comment on topics that r pointless or cause too much trouble. But this one's unlucky, hehe...

well, wotever it is every hater moans, at the end of the day, it's the people that make or break a city.

Simply, if you can't thrive -- leave; If you don't like -- never go back; if you can't take the heat -- get out of the kitchen. If you can't leave becoz ur own limited capabilities, then shut up moaning and take what u given.

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(continued) ...

Simply, if you can't thrive -- leave; If you don't like -- never go back; if you can't take the heat -- get out of the kitchen. If you can't leave becoz ur own limited capabilities, then shut up moaning and take what u given

Sadly, in reality, it is NOT that simple ...

When you walk into many restaurants with the "No Smoking" signs on the wall, more than often, there will still be people smoking there, and more than often, if you ask them to take it out, they will stare at you, laugh, and continued smoking, and more than often, the waiters and restaurant managers would not dare asking them ... yes, that happened to me at Regent Beijing in 2007, but not a tiny little corner restaurant ...

Once, it was Chinese New Year, 2007 or 2008, and we went to a restaurant somewhere in South 2nd, for a New Year family lunch, and although the "No Smoking" signs were very noticeable, there were of course people smoking, and when I politely asked the next table to take their smokes out, because when there were kids/babies at the scene ... I am not sure whether they really did not understand my broken Mandarin, or just chose to ignore, but they just went on ... it was not a happy Chinese New Year, and we, or I, did not have the option to leave, nor get out ...

The point of my two stories here is ... you, as ONE person, can choose to leave, but you often dont have that choice, or, restricted from making that choice, and on the other hand, the restaurants and hotels would be too happy to see you leave, though they said otherwise, because they can serve many many others who chose to stay ...

As much as I can see the point of what you and Kyle said ... life, or reality, is not always that simple, and to "bitch" about it, is perhaps the only way to let some steam out ..

Unless you have proof to challenge the facticity of my comments, the xenophobic swearing of limited capabilities is a typical behavior of juvenile who can't take a joke or face the reality. I do consider leaving Beijing, although the decision has nothing to do with pure "capabilities", plus how could people like Grace gets hired otherwise (unless she is unemployed and maybe that's why she is so angry) if everyone who disagrees or comments on the truth should be sent to a concentration camp?

Moreover, brain-drain and investment flowing overseas due to insecurity and disagreements with the current situation are already very critical to the country's development and social governance, unless the people who have the "Power and Authorization by Law" declare that they have the confidence and motivation to drag aliens out of Beijing, or the whole country for that matter, your noise isn't really helping anyone.

BTW, of course we can compare with the worse part of the world, like Sudan. Looking at more misfortunate people always make us feel better, it is in our gene, that's why we choose the current system, capitalism is the unequal sharing of wealth, but communism is the equal sharing of misery.

This is all too negative...

capitalism is the unequal sharing of wealth, but communism is the equal sharing of misery

Don't you think there's some happy medium to be found?

叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹) wrote: As much as I can see the point of what you and Kyle said ... life, or reality, is not always that simple, and to "bitch" about it, is perhaps the only way to let some steam out ..

Of course it's that simple. Life or any situation for that matter is only as difficult as one wants to make it out to be. Again, it's a frame of mind that a person is in and how the perceive their situation, but it doesn't mean it's right or wrong either.

The world and it's people over the last few decades have become spoiled of superficial things, which people now believe are necessities, and as a result have taken for granted of things which are provided to them right in front of their eyes.

My apology for leaving negative comments which spoils people's mood for lunch-break to users here, including the several angry ladies up there. I was a person full of hopes like you, only because I didn't know well enough about myself and the reality. I didn't care what happened to others, until when it comes to my turn, no one cares either.

For example, everyone sees that China has some state-owned enterprises which are the most powerful in the world now, but few remembers the savage and cruel corporate reform that laid out millions of workers who had been working for the state for 30-40 years. Most were left to die at the compensation of USD 1000 and China didn't even have a Labour Contract Law at that time. Yes, they are the forgotten, like everyone else who perished in the course of Chinese history, because in collective solipsism, individual is not worth caring or crying for.

As you were talking about "change it or leave it", I would quote the commentary from "the People's Daily":

"The current system has to be changed, although the risk is high, but can't be higher than keep it where it is."

The City and the people are cool, the facts I commented only have one message: "get realistic!". The time when we added a "0" after "1000kg" to report agricultural yield per hectare is OVER.

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(continued) ... Julie ... we will make you our Goddess ...

Kyle ... dont make me say it ...

swoons

STFU KYLE THIS IS NOW A PERSEPHONE THREAD

What do we have to do to launch Persephone's campaign to be elected emperor? I'll hit the pavement to collect signatures today, to make sure she's on the ballots.

I bow down to empress Persephone. Please accept my humble apology, holy one.

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(continued) ... Dando is now unofficially Eric ... who want to play Stan and Kenny?

@Persephone Tsang:

Bloody hell...talking about getting angry, u r way up there,hun!

there r many reasons Im hired n doing a job I love so much, but that's none of ur frigging business!

Everyone here is letting some steam out, if u can't take the steam, u may as well chill out n think about how to get out of Beijing!! Topic like this meant to attract many different opinions!

emm...I'v not been posting comments or read as many threads here, but as far as iv heard/see, Persephone might hav a reputation...

I am realistic, but I'm also positive, open minded and not living my life in Beijing, it's a tourist attraction to me, n also home to some of my friends, so I see more goods in it!

。。。

Hahahahaha ... I think there is actually a pattern here ...

People who tend to "bitch" about Beijing, or China in general, are those who are "stuck" here, for a relatively long time, whether by choice or otherwise ... and they probably also like to believe that "grass is always greener" on the other side, so they tend to whinge and bitch about where they live, which is here in Beijing ...

On the other hand ...

People who "bitch" about "other people's bitching" are the frequent flyers, and because they often only stay a compatively short interval but they dont come to one particular place often enough, there is probably no reason or opportunity for them to see the "dark side" of the city (or, they might have, but they opted to "shade" it out in their mind, to maintain a "pretty picture") ...

It is like when we went to Cambodia ... we noticed that the living standard is low in most places, so we kind of lowered the expectation, and then everything started to look fantastic ... something like that anyway ...

So ...

To those who bitch about Beijing ... because I am one of them ... carry on ...

To those who bitch about other people's bitching ... you bitch about these "bitching" because it is something you dont like to see, but you cannot really change them, which is exactly like these people when they noticed things about Beijing that they dont like ... so, like some of you had said above ...

"live with it" ...

PS. the logic is there, but only the less educated can see it :)

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Hahahahahaha ... my level of intelligence can only reach that far ... or as Julie quoted "Meng Zi" in the other thread, I am not a man of honor :)

@Grace, Pardon if this seems like an abruptly intrusive observation, but I think you've been away from Beijing for quite a while, haven't ya? Don't get me wrong, I'm just another cracker tourist bitching about other people bitching because I am a filthy hipster who never metabitch he didn't like, but it seems like you might be susceptible to a bit of nostalgic optimism. I sense honeymoon anticipation. Could be wrong, though. Feel free to bust my balls for the presumption.

That said, @Uncle, I rather sincerely appreciate this dark side of Beijing, but I still won't complain, because this place resembles the bleak dystopias of my fondest nightmares.

I think what we need to distinguish between are complaints arising from individual butthurt and collective injustice. You may interpret this as a response to @Persephone's trolliciously post-leftist quip: "in collective solipsism, individual is not worth caring or crying for."

Getting treated roughly while queuing for the subway or losing your appetite because someone hocked up lung butter on the sidewalk is the SHIT TIER of expat complaints. Pollution, real estate prices, and shoddy infrastructure are totally legit HIGH TIER. Highlighting the hypocrisy of a presumed workers' party slashing state workers' pensions is GODDESS TIER.

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Hahahahaha ... for the third time, in less than 24 hours ... that's why Dando is Dando :)

.......................................

Meng Zi/ Kong Zi are no good. Old lazy teachers always stating double standards between men and women.

Quoting their theory again, I don't generally cook, so I am not a woman of honour =.=!

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Hahahahaha ... you are prefect as you are ... could you give Gavin a call soon, please?

@凸ಠ_ರೃ凸 (随便叫兽): I guess u were right. i'm anticipating a good holiday, but it doesn't blind me from the downsides of the reality, although I'm more likely to be very open minded when things don't appear or go the way I expected, and this is very important to travellers I guess. But it certainly does not apply to pple who's living there long term.

@叮当叔

大女子现在应以事业为重,暂时不谈感情...现在一跟家里人打电话，我就一脑门子官司>.<

。。。

哈哈哈哈，干嘛又换台？英文是：been there, done that！

我以前的“应对招数”是 selective hearing，广东话是“借左聾耳陳隻耳”！而，我还记得，很多年前，我去机场接某某人回家途中，她在车上问我：“儿子，你是不是gay 的？”我当时几乎撞车！嘿嘿嘿。。。