Discussion » Nonsense » The lessons you've learned from China

  • Nicole
    Nicole wrote:
    <p>I am doing a quick survey and hope that the readers can help answer a question for me:</p> <p>If you are a foreigner in China: What are three lessons you have learned from China?</p> <p>If you are Chinese but have had considerable contact with western culture, What three lessons have you learned from the West?</p> <p>In your answer, please give a one-line description of your background with regard to Chinese &amp; Western culture.</p> <p>I am looking forward to hearing everyone's input!</p>
  • Pavoir Sponse
    Pavoir Sponse wrote:

    Hmmm, not much for four years research, but I would say:

    1. it is ok to sleep pretty much anywhere you like
    2. Xinjiang rose tea is a very grand drink
    3. if you are going to invade China, do it at lunchtime
  • Åshild Camilla Lande Berge

    @Pavoir: that's hilarious, "Do it at lunchtime", hahaha~~

  • A豆腐
    A豆腐 wrote:

    The society of US, matriarchical? Very Funny

  • Alex ^∞
    Alex ^∞ wrote:

    I come at it from a certain perspective that no doubt will irratate many, but whatever...

    Three lessons to be learned from China:

    1 - Art, culture and creativity are DEAD...save for in a few (very few) isolated pockets of brilliance which survive purely because of their stubborness and refusal to conform / shut up / go away. There are more talented foreign artists working in China than there are talented Chinese artists. There are more talented Chinese artists working outside of China than inside. I guess its 'politics'...but how this is beneficial to the party or country in the long run is hard for me to see. Also of note and only tangentially related - it is harder to find a talented Chiense martial arts teacher in China than it is anywhere else in the world.

    2 - Lack of manners maketh man. Apparently, the ruder, cruder, lewder and shrewder you are here, the better. You are considered "smart" if you can get away with it. Clever for making an extra RMB off a deal with a child, the sick or the weak (as long as you dont get caught); if not youre a softie for not trying.
    You will be punished by society for trying to do good, stepping out of line, or standing up for your belifes. Help a man on the street who fell over or got into some kind of accident and you will somehow end up having to pay his medical expenses - after all, if he can get away with it, he's smart and youre dumb.

    3 - Modern China is somewhat a reflection of what unchecked humanity in a neo feudalistic society complete with a large disparency in wealth, an uneven distribution of high technology and an irresponsible people causes anywhere; i.e. its a microcosm of modern globalist society - and the two are getting closer and closer to one another in terms of similarities. Considering China in this context can provide useful insight into the mechanisms of other societites, and the "global society" (hate the term) whos faults are not necessarily as obvious on the surface as those of "Modern China". (Im thinking the west - USA, Europe.) USA and Europe are by no means devoid of corruption, societal inequality, abuse of power, resentment amongst the havenots, contempt among the haves etc. but I suppose the surprising thing is that these aspects become clearer after exposure to a society where they appear more prevailant.

  • Lars Ramstad
    Lars Ramstad wrote:

    Lessons from the West:

    The western culture is no less glorious than our proud 5000 years civilization.. they have many many great poets, writers, thinkers and artists just as we do/did.. in many ways much more creative...we shouldn't boast how great our ancient civilization once was, while in fact there's nothing to boast of in our modern culture...Look at the TV dramas, films and music in China nowadays, they are disgusting... can't believe people watch and listen to this shit everyday... Just like what Alex F said: Art, culture and creativity are DEAD. (almost)

    Not all Englishmen are gentlemen. Not all Americans are assholes. Not all western guys are muscular beefcakes. Even white guys can't get it up sometimes, don't expect they are your knight in shining armors running to rescue you from the deep shit you live in.

    The West itself is a melting pot with many sub-cultures..Paris is much different from New York, like Shanghai is different from Beijing...not all western cities are paradise, they also have areas that are extremely boring and conservative..

    It's not like the world is either the West or China, there are also the Indian sub-continent, the Middle East, South East Asia, South America Africa etc, from which we can learn a few lessons from.

  • Ajantha Manohar

    Yep, 120 years ago, US was a Second World country

  • Ajantha Manohar

    All the tech that as available and people lived real high standards of living

    In the big cities, like in China now. Come on, pete! Countries dont born perfect. US was a colony, and it is always hard recover after suffer colonialism.

  • Mya In
    Mya In wrote:

    ppl who works has to do some kind of "PR" job inside the office no matter what department you are at...

  • Alex ^∞
    Alex ^∞ wrote:

    @ petemcbromantic

    You conveniently omit that electric lighting was invented in England by Humphrey Davey, not in the USA ;)

  • Ajantha Manohar

    Pete, there is not nothing wrong with - have been a second world country-, the problem Is continue being it in the present.

  • Ajantha Manohar

    Ok, pete, in What time do you consider US was a second world country? When the american indios ruled there?

  • Mya In
    Mya In wrote:

    yes..that's kinda what i meant... I really really hate those things..Can't we just work...plzz...simply....

  • Mya In
    Mya In wrote:

    well, I just have worked in a Chinese company & a Korean company. So don't know much abt other companies. but, I believe so, in some point..

  • Alex ^∞
    Alex ^∞ wrote:

    @Pete: No, I was not "right sort of" - I was completely and entirely correct.

    But well done for manking an attempt at admitting so.... (thanks to wikipedia, no thanks to your education).

  • Åshild Camilla Lande Berge

    @卫三下三尺: My question is: What lessons have you learned from China (Chinese culture and Chinese society) if you are a foreigner living in China? Both positive and negative opinions are welcomed. Please note that it's not a competition about who can learn more from who.

    As a Chinese who has been exposed to Western culture and countries, I've learned the following lessons:

    Positive: 1. Be courageous to express your own opinons no matter they are correct or wrong. But this also largely depends on one's personality. 2. You don't have to get married and buy a house and a car to be happy when you are over 30 years old. But of course, if those make you happy, it's great. 3. Respect others' privacy more. More and more young Chinese have adopted this idea, but the older generation still likes to pry.

    I will talk about negative things tomorrow.

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    Hahahahaha ... one thing I have learnt, is that this is my wife's territory (guess who is reading this now) ...

    @卫三下三尺: 。。。 Please note that it's not a competition about who can learn more from

    Nicole ... I am not too sure if Pete might have actually understood that :)

  • Krister Thonerud
    1. competence is over-rated
    2. the use of logic to solve illogical problems is futile
    3. the number of ignorant, lazy, embarrassing, pompous expats plagued with hubris is far more than I previously imagined
  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    (continued) ... huh? your own words? you mean "Nicole" here is your clone?

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:
    1. Beef is inferior to mutton and pork.
    2. If a girl makes a claim at being "traditional" followed by an unsolicited admission of disinterest in sex, she will fuck you within three dates.
    3. Do not flush toilet paper.

    Chairman Mao's Three Worlds Theory (and its informal Western counterpart) is a relic of the Cold War. As such, it's very fucking silly to say America used to be a Second World country (that designation was reserved for the Soviet bloc).

    It's 2012. The dialogue is between developed (or highly developed) and developing. A more apt question would be: When did the USA's level of development resemble China's? I'd say late 1800s to pre-WWII is pretty fair, if you're talking about how people relate to their productive means.

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    Hahahaha ... my apology, Peter, I am not your biggest fan, so I have not followed your previous conversation with Nicole :)

  • Saint - Spartacus

    春天不洗澡,处处蚊子咬,夜来大狗熊,谁也跑不了!

  • Åshild Camilla Lande Berge

    Alright, today I'll talk about the negative lessons I've learned from the West. Let's be more specific, the West is too broad a term. I've been to the US, Canada and Holland and exposed to English, French, Italian and Spanish languages and cultures, so my comments surely do not apply to all Western countries.

    1. Complaining and attacking means being critically smart. To me, if a person complains too much, I would avoid him/her because there is too much negative energy in this person. It is your own ability and responsibility to adjust to a different environment. I’ve met many foreigners who attack China simply because China doesn’t have the things they have back home. Sure, I understand the frustration and I myself can list a page of negative things about China. But let’s be more constructive rather than react angrily.

    2. When I visited North America, many of the people there I met were more biased and ignorant of the outside world (including China) than I expected. It’s certain that their main source of information is media which reports mostly negative news. Interestly, a lot of them told me that I changed their negative opinions about China after I talked to them and they wanted to visit China.

    3. Being blunt and forward means "man". Many foreign males (esp. white) in China have been spoiled. They think they can get any girl they want by being forward and pushy, sometimes to the point that they don't respect girls at all. I have to say, some cheap and calculating Chinese girls have to take part of the blame.

  • Saint - Spartacus

    我完全同意尼克拉小姐的观点

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    Boy, do I!

    except Dando the us was different at that time

    Except, Pete, you're a fucking idiot.

    OH MY FUCK WHY AM I DOING THIS WHY AM I RESPONDING TO TROLLING IN EARNEST OH YES I KNOW IT'S BECAUSE IT FILLS THE GOD-SHAPED HOLE IN MY JET BLACK HEART OKAY I'M READY LET'S GO

    As fond as I am of referring to China as the United States of Asia, I never said that they were the same, only that comparisons were apt. Who am I kidding? At this point, you're struggling to eloquently express something that's readily apparent to anyone with an intact central nervous system. I'm going to wager that you're about to follow that up with something pants-shittingly stupid.

    due to a smaller labor force in the industrial revolution as compared to the UK, we built more machines to do work that had toe compensate for a smaller labor pool,

    As if it wasn't already patently obvious when you referred to Thomas Edison as the "inventor" of the light bulb, you have to go and say shit like this and remove all doubt from our minds that you're a blithering fuckwit.

    The America was the China of the UK, particularly with regards to the textiles trade, beginning with free labor in the form of slavery and later cheap labor in the form of sharecropping. America leapfrogged the rest of the world in the mid-20th century with the momentum she had built after a century of exploiting lands stolen from natives and labor stolen from niggers. And chinks! They built the railroads, y'know. That's probably the only thing that held the Union together after the Civil War.

    in contrast the UK had a large number of people going to the cities so that did not need to develop as advanced automated machinery.

    Why in the fuck are you discussing automation? Wrong century. For all intents and purposes, the industrial revolution happened in the UK; the US reaped the benefits. If anything, dense urbanization enabled such a development, far from rendering it unnecessary.

  • Simen Wangberg

    "They think they can get any girl they want by being forward and pushy, sometimes to the point that they don't respect girls at all. I have to say, some cheap and calculating Chinese girls have to take part of the blame. "

    The rest of your comment is pretty insightful, but I will say that dudes who behave like this in China probably behave the same way back home.

    They can probably get away with being a little more rude than usual because of language differences, but I don't think the fact that they're interacting with Chinese women necessarily makes them more forward or rude.

    Although there are definitely some Chinese women who make it easy for guys to act like that.

  • Saint - Spartacus

    different cultural raising different chickens, every chicken 'll pretect their descendant,

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    Hahahahaha ... the "kangaroo" rumor again? No, we don't even need to shoot them, they jumped onto our dinner plates ... and the "panda rumor" was that we heard pandas eat people, not the other way round :)

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    Some animals just need killin'.

  • Åshild Camilla Lande Berge

    Pandas are vicious carnivores.

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    Historical revisionists and creationists should use the examples of pandas and Peking man to refute evolutionary theories.

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    。。。

    (continued) ... Tara, I was not sure whether the "shooting" part might be true but then I dont know everything, and most likely, I know less than you do ... I have not cooked kangaroo meat before, though I might have eaten it once or twice, and as much as I can recall, it tasted more or less like beef ...

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    (continued) ... heehee ... kangaroos eat dogs :)

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    Hahahahaha ... Tara, not too sure why, as it is totally irrelevant, but the Chinese saying that keep flashing in my big empty skull is 黑吃黑 ...

    And Lee ... I think it depends on how it is cooked ... and I think most Australians tend to over-cook ...

    Changing from two-legged to four-legged ... Lee ... do we still have a "toad" problem back home? As Chinese, in particular, Cantonese cuisine would put pretty much ANY living thing that have their back upwards (towards the sky) on the dining table, do you think importing king toads from Oz would make much business? Just a thought :)

  • Kent Løset
    Kent Løset wrote:

    Tara不要迷茫: Here's why it's more acceptable for Australians to shoot and eat kangaroo's than it is for Chinese to eat panda ;-)

    China[br] Pandas: 2,000 to 3,000[br] Humans: 1.3 billions [br] [br] Australia:[br] Kangaroos: 27 millions[br] Humans: 22.8 millions

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    Hahahahaha ... Kent ... happens to have the number of sheeps in NZ and New Zealanders?

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    (continued) ... I prefer being called "low income earners" than "lower class" ... and I dont "zombie", I prefer to "cut the rope" ...

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    (continued) ... you are too far ...

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    。。。

    (continued) ... you can afford a what? I can barely afford a wife ...

  • Alex ^∞
    Alex ^∞ wrote:

    Wrong. China has a rather healthy artist community, they just don't give a damn about speaking English or stroking off foreign douches like you, so you don't know they exist.

    "Wrong" right back at you. China has a rather stifled, stuffy and stunted "artist community" when compared to europe, the americas, south east asia, australasia and, EVEN, the middle east. So maybe its better than in sub-saharan africa - pat yourself on the back for recognising this. Since you are talking to someone with extensive and enlightened experience in contemporary art of all forms from all corners of the globe, I suggest you pucker your presumptuous pie hole.

    Did you notice that for every asshole cutting in line there are 50 civilized Chinese people sighing with frustration, just like you? Nope, you only noticed the asshole and preceded to group all Chinese people in with him.

    I notice the way people drive, I notice the way they push past each other on the subway, in elevevators etc. I notice the way business is conducted. I notice the way doors are never held by any for any. I notice that as soon as one person cuts a que, instead of sighing and waiting patiently, most people will then attempt to cut in the same way they saw the original 'offender'. I also notice youre butthurt and trying to pick holes in an old thread.

    ROTFL, Professor. China has a massive, quickly growing middle class these days. Did you notice that the urban poor people are all on laptops and smart phones?

    No. I didnt notice how the urban poor people are all on laptops and smart phones, they arnt. "Poor" does not mean not driving a beamer or or merc. Honestly, there arnt many "poor" people in beijing, or along the eastern seaboard for that matter, but you do see them occasionally, wearing construction hats and living in shanty towns pretty well hidden behind your serviced block of studio flats. China does indeed have a rapidly growing (but also slowing) "middle" class, either way I stand by my comment about unchecked humanity in the context of neo feudalism.

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    You are wrong because I'm a cunt with an MFA and I know all of the arts of all of the countries.

    I only perceive rudeness because it confirms my biases.

    I'm afraid he's got you there on the third point, Scooter; 手机 are status symbols, after all, and there really isn't such a thing as "urban poor" in China, as housing prices and hukou regulations combine to divide urban and rural people into completely separate classes. The hukou system is widely panned within Chinese society as being feudalistic and backward.

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    (continued) ... man ... you must have it bad to get a state-shrink ... you win ...

  • Alex ^∞
    Alex ^∞ wrote:

    You are wrong because I'm a cunt with an MFA and I know all of the arts of all of the countries.

    Either way, still wrong.

    I only perceive rudeness because it confirms my biases.

    What biases? And yes, rudeness is always percieved; at other times, when actions that could be percieved as rude but are not, they are usually percieved as based either in humour or neccessary. Since the OP asked for personal thoughts, your comment about perception isnt a relevant and adds nothing to the thread.

    I'm afraid he's got you there on the third point, Scooter

    Correct, yet does not require your confirmation.

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    your opinion is wrong because my opinion is better

    has never heard Chinese people scolding one another for rudeness

    unwarranted sense of self importance

    It must be difficult retaining your farts all day. Relax. Have an Internet.

    alt text

  • Alex ^∞
    Alex ^∞ wrote:

    It must be difficult retaining your farts all day.

    It must be difficult converting yours into interwebz text all day. Oh no...sorry, it's not; it's what 'you do'.

  • Alex ^∞
    Alex ^∞ wrote:

    ...his ridiculous know-it-all pedanticism.

    Which, of course, Scott, you never display......

    Most Chinese art (and thus, most of the remaining physical cultural connections to the past) was thouroughly and willfully destroyed during that messy little internal spat known as the cultural revolution. The vast, VAST majority of that good stuff from yesteryear is gone - gone and never to return. Most of what remains is not even on the mainland - it exists in western and taiwanese private collections and museums.

    This issue is probably the greatest cause of butthurt for the "artsy" educated and enlightened Chinese people. It is also the reason why authentic Chinese antiqueties are commanding such astronomical prices at auction. It is also the reason why authentic contemporary Chinese art is commanding such astronomical prices at auction - Check this: people with money (and sometimes, but not always, taste) are absolutely desparate to catch hold of and hang onto any possible remnant of the past - which has been all but taken away from them, completely, by the CCP and our good friend Chairman Mao.
    It is a simple fact that "scarcity" is the issue. Compare the amount of existant art from pre 1950s China with the number of Chinese who exibit somewhat of an interest in pre 1950s China. Check out the obsession with period costume dramas and swashbuckling swordfighter romances. "The people" would give a lot for just a surviving teacup from these heroic and romantic (percieved or otherwise) ages. I dont think I need to go on...If you still dont get it, I dont care.

  • Mari Vidste
    Mari Vidste wrote:

    The only thing I don't like about Scott doing these image macros is that I don't think he has any pics of himself in his profile. Provide pics of yourself Scott, to give Alex a chance to come back. Otherwise you're a chigger.

  • Alex ^∞
    Alex ^∞ wrote:

    Provide pics of yourself Scott

    Dont hold your breath...lol

    to give Alex a chance to come back

    I appreciate your concern for me, conan, but its not neccessary. The pics are funny but I CBA to mess around with paint or whatever advanced image manipulation program hes using anyway. Scott does this for a living so I'll leave the interwebz culturz and lolcats to him. (He, after all, is not a pedant or psude.)

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    unqualified high cultural pretensions

    implying Conan is concerned about shit

    artfag, cannot into GIMP

    alt text

  • Mari Vidste
    Mari Vidste wrote:

    artfag, cannot into GIMP

    (Now that I have stolen photoshop I can tell you gimp is truly almost just as good.)

    But explain this to us, Alex. You're this huge art dilettante, right? And yet you have no interest in and speak condescendingly about image manipulation programs as if they are children's toys and not powerful tools of satire and statement.

    Accept the facts, internet culture is culture.

  • Alex ^∞
    Alex ^∞ wrote:

    unqualified high cultural pretensions

    qualify your statement.

    implying Conan is concerned

    no, he did.

    cannot into GIMP

    Please read this faq on the subject.

    I would never deny that internet culture is indeed culture. Whether or not I consider it worth my time to add "loltxt" to images, however, isnt relevant to the discussion. Besides, I would hardly call adding text to images "artistic". Comedic, perhaps. I appreciate the value of image manipulation techniques, and the wit employed by some of these vandals, but I wouldnt ascribe too high a value to the craft itself. I concede though, that political satire is always pertinent and the culture of it should be preserved.

    PS. Trolling is "AN" art.

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    irresponsibly shifts burden of proof instead of backing up appeals to (illegitimate) authority

    no u

    I don't know what the fuck Red Hat Linux is but I will post a link to a FAQ about how to use GIMP for a decade-old version of it

    alt text

  • Alex ^∞
    Alex ^∞ wrote:

    but I will post a link to a FAQ about how to use GIMP for a decade-old version of it

    Yes, a subtle reference (ill not bother with those here again) to the last time I used it, and the last system I used it on.

    PS. Trolling is still "AN" art.

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    too artfag to shoop

    too hacker to troll

    this bro wrote a story

    far too cool for school

    alt text

  • Peter S 李贝勒

    The 2nd day i arrived in china in 2006, the brother of the boss of the music school where i had to teach said to me "Never trust a chinese guy". I listened and keept his words in a corner of my brain. One year after, his brother, the boss, tried to cheat me. He failed. I finally worked 4 years in this shitty CMA, and do smiles to these assholes. Each times, i went to the school, I only thought to give to my students...

    That's the 1st thing i learned.

    2nd leson "guanxi and $$$" That's better to have friends in chinese police to avoid "wenti" in case of! And everything have a price here.

    3rd

    I got the yellow fever and i need an asian beauty.

    @alex F I'm agree with u. Creativity "mei you la" or "zai nar"? We re in the country of copy, we don't ask u to create...

  • Patrick Coleman

    beware of chinese gangingup on you. you will not ever win. stay cool

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