Discussion » Chinese Language & Culture » Agree or Disagree?

  • Tian 王倚天
    Tian 王倚天 wrote:
    <p>http://theoperabox.wordpress.com/2011/11/30/a-brave-new-republic/</p> <p>An outsider's perspective on the youth movement in China.</p>
  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    That'll continue to be an outsider's perspective as long as it's on a website on the other side of the GFW. Can't you at least post excerpts?

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    Hahahahaha ... I am more curious to know what does Tian think about it?

  • Tian 王倚天

    Sorry, here is the article

    In what is perhaps the fastest growth in economic prosperity ever witnessed, China is experiencing a youthful exuberance of new domestic, and revived foreign culture which would have been deemed to be too provocative just less than two decade ago.

    In most other Countries a similar growth would be almost too much for its citizens to handle, but for the largest populated Country on Earth the current escalation in China’s apparent quality of life could be seen by many as a modern renaissance.

    Since Premier Deng declared that “To get rich is glorious,” China has been on a frenzy of transforming from a Socialist industrial haven with little tolerance for opposing Communist ideals, into the ultimate experimental testing ground for mass Capitalism and political and social referendums which is nurturing a new future that is far from what some of the Nation’s founders once imagined.

    The opening of the doors to the West during the early nineties has caused an influx of tangible goods which over time resulted in the rebirth of bourgeois ideologies which was so abruptly squashed during the Great Proletariat Cultural Revolution.

    Adjacent to the economic growth is the gradual rise of an intensely diverse subculture of Chinese youths, far more impressionable than the generation before them; these demographics are shaping much of the social change in major metropolises across the Country in terms of fashion, music, social media, and other mediums of influence for the Nation’s young people.

    Chinese students has always held a special place within Chinese society, heralded as the torch bearers of the future of China, responsible for her prosperity, the nation’s youth has always bared the great burden of accomplishment within the narrow parameters of what it accepted as success. The expectations for these youths are great, but overall a simple one. However, the introduction of foreign luxuries into China also brings its ideologies. More and more, success is being redefined by a Nation which is being redefined by outside influences, and the Nation’s youths are beginning to find new and subversive roles for themselves instead of conforming to the traditional aspirations associated with growing up. Entirely new subcultures are being shaped under the watchful eye of the government, some of which include the rise of the super-rich, as well as the increasing number of poverty stricken children of migrant city workers—both of which sensitive demographics eventually expected to dictating the direction of the new China.

    An emerging market for high-end fashion, automotive, technology, and other consumer goods has found its way into the everyday lives of the Chinese people, things of vanity such as luxury cars, high-end condos and higher education which were consider to be once ‘counter-revolutionary’ are now once again status symbols in the People’s Republic.

    Alongside of the new and emerging social scene of Capitalist China, what ‘once was’ in Countries in the West are also finding new patronage in a land which once it was unable to penetrate. In what appears to be a time capsule unleashed onto a generation eagerly willing to explore what once was denied to them, a second coming of popular culture from the yesteryears beyond the Great Walls are given a second chance. The ultra-inflation of material goods that defined the decadent 80’s in America is making more than just an echo in cash rich cities like Shanghai as luxury brands invest more heavily into the growing mainland market, the birth of the punk rock scene experienced during the 70’s in the United Kingdom is mimicked in the sprawling live rock’n roll bars throughout Beijing’s nightlife scene, even the burgeoning pop art scene from China’s emerging rebellious youths is comparable to the Warhol years of the 60’s. For now these second-comings can be found in somewhat confined neighbourhoods like Sanlitan and 756 districts of Beijing, and Nangjing Road or Sheng Tian Di of Shanghai, but soon these influences derived from societies of tolerance and freedom may become what is defined as the norm in China, challenging the traditional form of culture, and ironically becoming a greater force to eliminate the traditional way of life more effectively than the Cultural Revolution ever did through a passive evolution from the old to the new.

    Whether this may be the transformation of the new direction for the People’s Republic or an intense test phase for the tolerance level of a political party which is still four decades shy of its centennial, what is happening in China is undoubtedly something only witnessed in History every few centuries, and as time passes it can only become more exciting. The coexistence of Capitalism and Communism is an experiment that has gotten the attention of everyone. Whether we are witnessing a possible breeding ground for political diversity, or a transformation of philosophical outlooks on life in the middle kingdom, the movement seems to be unstoppable as ageing itself, and the undetermined future for the Chinese is although delicate, is still mostly optimistic.

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    Economic prosperity only fosters the development of youth subcultures in that the youth in affluent societies have more disposable income to spend on cultural commodities. Surplus wealth is necessary for culture to flourish, but it is not sufficient.

    Opening markets otherwise has very little to do with opening minds, besides forcing people involved in international trade to engage in cross-cultural communication. But that's a globalization phenomenon that's got very little to do with youth movements.

  • Pavoir Sponse
    Pavoir Sponse wrote:

    Any ideas what these specific Chinese youth subcultures might be? I taught a lesson on subcultures this morning and got all sorts of odd examples for subcultures.

    The one that always amuses me is Fei Zhu Liu; they crack me up....

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    I thought 非主流 was just a general catch-all for Chinese subcultures. Like hipsters, minus irony. How are feizhuliu discrete from other youth subcultures?

  • Pavoir Sponse
    Pavoir Sponse wrote:

    My understanding of Fei Zhu Liu (though the translation is misleading) is that they are a youth group (often female teenagers from the countryside) who take bizarre, cutesy pictures of themselves, which they then photo-shop to make their eyes look bigger, and email to each other on the internet.

    They often seem to dye their hair orange. At least that is how it has been explained to me over the years; I'm happy to stand corrected.

    This isn't a very good example but..

    alt text

  • Pavoir Sponse
    Pavoir Sponse wrote:

    Hmmm don't think I have got the hang of attaching pictures, must update my net skills

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    take bizarre cutesy pictures of themselves on the internet,

    Narcissism is normal for younguns.

    which they then photo-shop to make their eyes look bigger

    Because it's kawaii~nyoro :3

    They often seem to dye their hair orange

    It's very hard to dye black hair any other way.

    There's a discrete culture to this shit? I thought this all was mainstream. Shows how out of touch I am. Tch. Kids these days. Get off my lawn!

  • Pavoir Sponse
    Pavoir Sponse wrote:

    According to my students it used to be a bit more popular a few years ago, but now is very uncool. Apparently they have been replaced by a subculture which translates to something along the lines of 'young, pure and fresh', (I don't know the Chinese, sadly). I'm told these gays are similar to the Fei Zhu Liu but more literary and intellectual- the mind boggles.

  • Tian 王倚天

    I just looked up 非主流, I can't seem to figure out what I'm looking at.
    anyway, it is afterall the perspective of an outsider

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    (continued) ...

    what a bunch of useless words in the artical

    i-m-mature, embarassingly, many of those words are still alien to me, and I dont have, or use, a dictionary ... so they might not be useless, but they are definitely not comprehensible :)

    MANY PPL are much smarter......!

    Hahahaha ... yes, yes, I know that ... so, as unintelligent, illogical and abnormal as me, who would otherwise have no patience nor interest to actually read this, I struggled through most of it, even visiting the original WordPress page to have a look ... and two "things" strike me: the author seems to be of Asian descent and this is the ONLY post on his blog ... mmmm ... curious ...

    Sanlitan and 756 districts of Beijing Nangjing Road or Sheng Tian Di of Shanghai

    I am guessing here that this was meant to be 798? I had never been to 798, nor Nangjing Road or Sheng Tian Di, but my guess is that these are either tourist spots or the equivalence of SLT or 798? If so, then what the author had witnessed and understood (understand?) is only a fraction of the truth ... hence somewhat obscured (?)...

    The coexistence of Capitalism and Communism is an experiment that has gotten the attention of everyone.

    I might be blinded by my own ignorance, but I failed to see much, or any, trace of Communism in mainland (other than symbolic), so, as far as "experiment" goes, I think it has pretty much failed, and then again, I might be blind :)

    Anyway ... there are some truths in this article, but mostly superficial, so there is much to be agreed with, but at the same time, much is also arguable or debatable ...

    Oh boy ... I suddenly feel very intelligent, can anyone feel that too? no? ... damn damn damn ...

    anyway, it is afterall the perspective of an outsider

    Hahahaha ... I failed to see the reason of mentioning this article on this forum, other than as an example to illustrate that some "outsiders" do not see things very clearly? Tian, is the author a friend of yours?

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    “but I failed to see much, or any, trace of Communism in mainland (other than symbolic)“

    This.

    The article seems to be possessed of the same retarded optimism as those technocratic idealists who expect the Internet to democratize authoritarian countries.

  • A豆腐
    A豆腐 wrote:

    [... ] “but I failed to see much, or any, trace of Communism in mainland (other than symbolic)“

    I think chinese mind is pragmatic... of one thing, conserve what works....

    From Communism, they have conserved the feature of government intervention in economic issues. For example, the Housing Bubble....if you have watched the chinese news this week, you know what im talking about...

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    。。。

    (continued) ... heehee ... and do you realize how much, or little, do they know about this bubble?

    There is a Chinese saying here: 治标不治本 ... and the other one is: 头痛医头,脚痛医脚 ... they are just fixing the symptoms, not the roots of the problems :)

    I am not sure if I might have mentioned before, I agree with, and fully support, the ideal of Communism, but, ideal is just, well, ideal, which means that it usually wont survive in the real world ...

    I feel so damn smart today ... but, heehee, that's also just an ideal ... we all know that I am not ...

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    。。。

    (continued) ... my dear, I dont have the luxury of a brain, so making fun seems to make more sense to me :)

    and I dont see why not to reply a thread properly

    By the way, you have yet to reply my question ... or are you hiding something?

    at least OP said sorry and repost his article here.....and not afraid of us to bash on him

    You must be new around here, or acting as someone new ... I suggest you do a search of what he had said in the past ...

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    。。。

    (continued) ... ahhhh ... never mind ...

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    @Maturewhat,

    Communism is everywhere..this is why ppl here are so different than westerners ....it's in ppl's mind~~~so you cant see it clear by your eyes just.......

    How can something in people's minds be everywhere? Perhaps you could demonstrate by taking a dose of 44 caliber aspirin and turning what's left of your mind into a lovely aerosol mist?

    Communism entails a classless society, which China certainly is not, and there are few signs that the country is moving in that direction, either. Post-Mao China is scarcely socialist, let alone communist.

    Just trying to meet a few friends for the inevitable return to China, whenever that might be. Real Estate, and the Military takes up most of my life, I am an amateur boxer...and I sometimes am a little highbrow for my own good. I like expensive things. Employer: Department of National Defence, Position: Secret, Place: Canada

    Overseas Chinese involved in property ownership and killing people? He's the fucking Antichrist.

    That said, I don't really give a fuck about the OP's opinion, because he was kind enough not to inflict it upon us when he dumped this shitty article upon us. That would be adding insult to injury.

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    I'm not going to expand an " individual"" viewpoint to a "country" viewpoint

    You already did when you said:

    Communism is everywhere..this is why ppl here are so different than westerners

    I'm a Marxist. My eyes are wide fucking open for evidence of functional socialist policy in China. I'm looking for ammunition to use against more typical Americans who endlessly repeat stupid nonsense like "communism doesn't work." If anyone's going to call you a 无毛党 for presenting such evidence, it won't be me.

    I want you to be right.

    But you're wrong.

    Not because you're an idiot, but because China abandoned communism in all but name before Mao's corpse had a chance to get cold. You're not going to argue because you don't have an argument. The gap between the rich and poor in China is absolutely massive by any measure.

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    doing personal attack in the arguements only showing your weakness both in your brain and points

    You mean like this?

    you don't have a clear mind to see through things ...

    just fool around yourself here ...

    If here do have class...you dont have chance to talk to me even ...

    you are an ignorant peasant ...

    you are just a peasant ...

    The reason insults and argumentation are not to be mixed is because insults are associated with the ad hominem logical fallacy, in which one might say "You are wrong because you are a peasant." But I cleverly sidestepped this, because I can anticipate your non-arguments before you can make them. To wit:

    If anyone's going to call you a 无毛党 for presenting such evidence, it won't be me. I want you to be right. But you're wrong. Not because you're an idiot, but because China abandoned communism in all but name before Mao's corpse had a chance to get cold.

    When I asked you to prove the statement "Communism is everywhere," you couldn't come up with any response other than the nauseating repetition of "You're a peasant."

    You say that arguments weaken my points. I say: at least I have points. At least I can parse arguments from the supplemental entertainment of insults.

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    。。。

    (continued) ... I doubt if she is getting any of this ... ahhh ... she sounded like the toad ...

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    @DD, I don't really talk to trolls so much as I talk through trolls, so if my points elude her it really doesn't bother me. If I were really trying to prove how smart I am, I wouldn't be shooting fish in a barrel, 'cuz there are many more under the bridge.

    I dont have points but statements...that's right

    alt text

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    。。。

    (continued) ... when did I ever say "hate"?

    Heehee ... I am sure that my lack of intelligence has nothing to do with it, so dont you worry about it ... and no, he is not helping me ... and he knows it ...

    Carry on ...

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    Ain't it?

    What I like about Maturewhat is she doesn't have any points to make, only statements. She's not here to argue with 屁民. She just likes to hear herself talk, but since she even doesn't listen to that, it's easy trolling to just juxtapose her own contradictory opinions against one another, and let cognitive dissonance do the rest of the work.

    She just edited her last comment at least three times to get it just right. Trolling is a art, indeed.

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    of course i edit my posts many times...because i wanna be more responsible

    In your case, the responsible to do would be to click "Delete" instead of "Edit," and then go masturbate with a loaded caulk gun.

    I'm still waiting for you to apprise us of this ubiquitous communism you'd spoken of previously, but I won't hold my breath.

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    OHOHOHO~!

    Maturewhat, in pointing out that my favorite pastimes are jacking off and smoking pot, has found a chink in my armor. I seem to have contradicted myself when I said "I won't hold my breath," because marijuana and masturbation are much better when one does just that! How could I be so foolish?

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    I was wrong...

    ...to think anyone who could follow this conversation would follow this conversation.

Please login to post a reply to this thread.

WeLiveInBeijing

WeLiveInBeijing.com is a social community for people living in or traveling to Beijing.

Powered by: Bloc