Discussion » Beijing Life » New landlord is kicking us out

  • Joakim Lund Rangel
    Joakim Lund Rangel wrote:
    <p>This is the situation:</p> <p>In July this year we signed a 12 month contract for an apartment in Beijing. 7 days ago the apartment was sold and our contract was transferred to the new landlord. And today we received a phone call from the new landlord telling us that we have 1 month to move out. Which we have not agreed to do.</p> <p>We have already paid upfront rent that is covering the rent till January 25th 2012.</p> <p>What rights do we have?</p>
  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...[br] [br] Hahahahaha ... I was about to talk to you about this in private, but having seen what Swag has already said, it looks like I have nowhere to run?[br] [br] Jo ... you said "transferred“, so where did the remaining amount of rent go to? Is it kept with the previous owner or the new one? [br] [br] I dont exactly know the law, and even if I do, there are a lot of people who would not care ... if the new owner has already taken the rent, or the remaining portion, then he has to at least honor the contract: either let you stay or pay you back the remaining rent ...[br] [br]

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...[br] [br] (continued) ...

    The only right you have is to be paid two months fine including your remaining rent and off you go[br]

    Chicken ... where did you hear about that?[br] [br] By the way, Jo ... Persphone seems to have fairly good knowledge about local law, you might want to ask her ...

  • V. Bilrost
    V. Bilrost wrote:

    What are the regulations of landlord violating your agreements in your contract? If there're items about how to solve such situation, then do it.

    Techinically, it's illegal that the landlord sells the house he/she has rented without querying with the sitting tenants, tenants can refuse to move.

    However, what rights you own is one thing, wether you can protect them is another thing.

    A friend of mine (Chinese) had the similar situation two weeks ago, he made the contract via agency, his landlord wants to sell the house, therefore my friend was kicked out far earlier than the lease. My friend tried to refuse to move, tried to ask the agency to solve the problem, tried to lodge a complaint, all in vain, in the end, he just got all the upfront rent back.

    My suggestion: If you have lawyer friends, consult them or ask them to negotiate with the new landlord. Try talk with the new landlord with patience, get your upfront rent back, ask for compensation of 1-2 months rent. If you're very furious and don't care about the loss, try contact some jouralist to explose this matter, let the public voice pushes the landlord to do the right thing :P

  • Joakim Lund Rangel

    Jo ... you said "transferred“, so where did the remaining amount of rent go to? Is it kept with the previous owner or the new one?

    The new owner have received the remaining rent from the old landlord. As well as the deposit. I met both the old and new landlord together 7 days ago where this things was cleared out. The new landlord also told us in that meeting that we could stay till the contract ends. So either she changed her mind after this, or she just didnt have the courage to tell it to me in the face, I'm guessing the last one.

    Any idea of where to find the rental laws? I've been googling and binging for the last hour, and I haven't found anything yet. Though I am googling in english, not in Chinese. You wanna give it a shot and see if you can find it for me?

    I`m offering free drinks to the guy(s) that can find the Chinese rental laws for me :-)

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    。。。[br] [br] (continued) ... [br][br]

    Techinically, it's illegal that the landlord sells the house he/she has rented without querying with the sitting tenants, tenants can refuse to move [br]

    ... I am afraid this is NOT true ... [br]

    Jo ... I just found this page on Baidu, in Chinese, get Shayla to have a read ...[br]

    http://zhidao.baidu.com/question/232803641.html[br] [br]

    你(new owner)无权参与租客与原业主的租赁合同,只能等合同到期。因为租赁合同的签订日期在你买房子之前。你的买卖合同部得对抗善意第三人,善意第三人也就是租客。他没有必要和你再签合同。

  • V. Bilrost
    V. Bilrost wrote:

    It's the one, but there're related contents in some other laws:

    http://bj.house.sina.com.cn/2004-03-08/36842.html

  • Joakim Lund Rangel

    What are the regulations of landlord violating your agreements in your contract? If there're items about how to solve such situation, then do it.

    From the contract: Party A`s (Landlord) responsiblities

    After signing this Tenancy Agreement by both parties, if Party A breaches this Tenancy agreement, Party B (me) has the right to ask for additional compensation in addition to the refund of the deposit from Party A. The amount of compensation shall be equivalent to the deposit.During the tenancy period Party A is not premitted to take back the premisises without the consent of Party B [...] Otherwise, Party B retains the right to refuse or ask for compensation equivalent to two months rent and Party A must refund the said deposit and the unspent rent to Party B.
    
  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...[br] [br] (continued) ... this page was 7 years ago ... even China's insurance law has changed at least once in the last three years ... currently searching for the latest edition ...

  • V. Bilrost
    V. Bilrost wrote:

    @DD, I know, and I have latest version of it, but doc format, just gave OP and other warm-hearted people (like you )some keywords to do further searching.

  • Joakim Lund Rangel

    Techinically, it's illegal that the landlord sells the house he/she has rented without querying with the sitting tenants, tenants can refuse to move ... I am afraid this is NOT true ...

    The new landlord have added her signature to the original contract and accepted all terms in the contract.

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    。。。[br] [br]

    (continued) ...

    I`m offering free drinks to the guy(s) that can find the Chinese rental laws for me :-)[br]

    Jo ... anything to help ... as long as you guys get the damn site working properly ...

  • V. Bilrost
    V. Bilrost wrote:

    @ Joakim: You should check all the regulations in your original contracts as I asked, mine has this part very clear, I've heard plenty of similar stories from my lawyer friends, it's true. If you check some court records, some judgers say so too. To protect your rights is very hard, time and energy saving way is to get compensation and all the money you've paid back.

  • High Priest
    High Priest wrote:

    Hmm, In China, I don't know if the word contract really exists. The stupid advice I'd give to you is to search for a place before things get out of hands. Once the landlord calls the police will say u wrong and the Chinese Land lord is right.

    I have been a victim many times and lost my money. In my case I won't even want to bother to argue, it's just in vain.

    That's China

  • Joakim Lund Rangel

    To protect your rights is very hard, time and energy saving way is to get compensation and all the money you've paid back.

    What can we include in our demands of compensation? The contract states that we have the rights of 2 months compensation. But can we demand anything more than this? Example of other cost that I want to know if we can include are:

    1. We have 2 internet lines, both is paid upfront for 1 year.
    2. 5-10 days moving costs, including 6 employees on pay roll.

      "During the tenancy period Party A is not premitted to take back the premisises without the consent of Party B [...] Otherwise, Party B retains the right to refuse or ask for compensation"

    The fact that we got the rights to refuse sounds like it really just is a negotiation situation. So the question is, what are the landlord really capable of doing if we refuse or delay this negotiation?

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...[br] [br] (continued) ... Chicken ... no argument about the age part, but I know I am not back in Australia ... [br] [br] Snake ... ahhhhhh ... never mind ... just keep entertaining us ... [br] [br] Jo ... back in 2008, when we were moving out from Legent, the new owner tried to cheat us of the deposit, because he said that was written in the contract ... so, being ignorant and stupid and all that, I said that I would check the contract (in Chinese), and since we had done everything according to contract, I refused (which means that he was asking for me to agree outside the contract, but failed) ...[br] [br] ... after getting nowhere, he probably called the the agent who called us, asking to give a little because the owner is new (or some crap excuse), and my reply was still "I will do whatever the contract said" ... after a few more phone calls, they gave up ...[br] [br] So. though it is true that a lot of people dont obey or observe the law and/or contract, I believe, as long as we are on the right side ot the law, there is little these people can do ... [br] [br]

  • Mengmeng
    Mengmeng wrote:

    北京市房屋租赁管理若干规定

    第七条 租赁房屋的,出租人和承租人应当依法签订房屋租赁合同。合同内容应当包括房屋基本情况、租金、租赁期限、租赁用途、违约责任等。[br] 房屋租赁期限内未经承租人同意,出租人不得擅自缩短租赁期限、增加租金。[br] 第八条 出租人出卖租赁房屋的,应当在出卖之前的合理期限内通知承租人,承租人享有以同等条件优先购买的权利。[br] 房屋在租赁期限内因买卖、继承、赠与等发生所有权变动的,不影响租赁合同的效力。[br] Check http://www.gov.cn/flfg/2011-07/13/content_1905555.htm

    If the contract states "we have the rights of 2 months compensation" clearly, I don't think you can ask for more compensation. But you have the right to refuse to move out according to the regulation.

    I think you can negotiate with the landlord, it's just 2 months left, why she cant wait another 30 days? If she insists, you can try to put your additional conditions up front.

    PS, I don't need reward for offering help, just put me in less pain when editing the post.

  • Nicole Webber
    Nicole Webber wrote:

    Joakim I found this on Google, not sure how up to date this is but it gives an idea.

    The law is pro-landlord Although, the rental housing sector is heavily regulated, the system is in favor of landlords. The landlord is covered by the guaranty money and there are no restrictions regarding discrimination of tenants.

    Rents: Can landlord and tenant freely agree rents in China? China has old rent control laws, remnants of the Cultural Revolution (1966-1976). These controls are not strictly implemented and laws and regulations are being passed at the local level to remove these restrictions.

    There is no rent control in major centers such as Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou, and Shenzhen. Rent adjustments are subject to the provisions of the contract. Most monthly rents are quoted in USD. However, due to the switch to floating exchange rate regime, rents quoted in RMB are growing.

    Deposits Guaranty money (security deposit) is usually about two to three months’ rent. A down payment or advance payment for one month’s rent is also usually required. In some cases, deposit is only one month’s rent but the tenant has to pay 3 months’ rent in advance. (For a Sample Contract, please click here) Within 20 working days after the end of the tenancy, the guaranty money is returned without interest and after deducting costs for repairs and unpaid utilities. If the deposit is not sufficient, the tenant is usually required to remit the amount within the 15 days.

    What rights do landlords and tenants have in China, especially as to duration of contract, and eviction? The usual lease term is 12 months with an option to renew for a 2nd year. If the tenant wishes to renew the contract, he must notify the landlord two to three months before the expiration of the contract.

    If the landlord wishes to unilaterally terminate the contract prematurely, he must pay double the down payment and double the guaranty money, a total of about 8 months’ rent. If the tenant prematurely terminates the contract, he will lose the guaranty money and down payment.

    The tenant is charged 0.5% interest per day for late payments. If the amount remains unpaid for 20 days, the landlord can terminate the contract and take the guaranty money. If the tenant subleases the house without the landlord’s written consent, which shall constitute a breach of contract and entitle the landlord to compensation worth 3 months’ rent.

    If the tenant does not remove his properties from the rental unit 10 days after the expiration of the contract, the landlord is entitled to dispose of the said properties without any compensation to the tenant. Subleasing is generally not allowed.

    EVICTION FOR NON-PAYMENT OF RENT

    Duration until completion of service of process 15

    Duration of trial 105

    Duration of enforcement 60

    Total Days to Evict Tenant 180

    Courts: The Lex Mundi Project

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