Discussion » All non BJ languages » Cantonese (廣東話)

  • Bryan (賴宏杰)
    Bryan (賴宏杰) wrote:
    <p>As an American, Cantonese is historically the Chinese language known to Americans.&nbsp; In fact, most Chinatowns in the US, except maybe some very new ones, are Cantonese only.&nbsp; I like Cantonese, and know very little, but can kind of "read" in Cantonese in addition to Mandarin.&nbsp; It seems though that most non-Cantonese Chinese speakers really have a dislike of Cantonese (dialect/language).&nbsp; Anyone have any reasons for that?&nbsp;</p>
  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    。。。

    Hahahahaha ... as a (native) Cantonese speaker, according to the small sample of people that I know, it is 20-80 ... the minority are younger people who want to learn Cantonese for work and fun (KTV, travel, watching movies etc) ... while majoriry do seemed a bit resistant or not interested ... my wife is a native Beijing girl and managed to learn a few simple phrases for fun, but she can understand most of what I say in Cantonese ...

  • Bryan (賴宏杰)

    I mean I would love to learn Cantonese, but no one seems to want to teach me.  I can sing quite a handful of songs in Cantonese and actually "read" the cantonese I'm singing, I just don't know the intonation to speak it or truly understand much of it listening.  I was at ktv once (in the US) and I sang a couple of Cantonese songs.  These few guys from HK who didn't know me asked me first "Are you from Hong Kong?"  I replied "no."  they looked confused and asked "Did you live in Hong Kong or go to Hong Kong before?" again I replied "No."  Them:  "But you're Cantonese

  • Bryan (賴宏杰)

    is almost perfect."  Me: "I don't speak Cantonese."  Them:  "You're totally lying!".  lol, I was highly complimented, but a bit bummed that I couldn't legitimately speak it.   They absolutely refused to believe that I don't speak Cantonese... o.O

     

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    (continued) ... heehee ... I am not qualified to teach you, and maybe because I am lazy, I just found it too restrictive to learn the 100% correct pronunciation ...

    The other day, Ami posted a video about "Princess illness", starring a non Chinese who speaks fairly good Cantonese ... with accent ... you might have seen it?

    Hong Kong and Cantonese speakers are minority on this site, but I did create a group for it ... as I said, I am not qualified to teach you, but if you are interested, I can help to correct you :)

  • Ejdnzlaj
    Ejdnzlaj wrote:

    Moonriver, what is that supposed to mean?

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    (continued) ... heehee ... Kieran ... I think it is meant to be an insult ...

  • Bryan (賴宏杰)

    Moonriver, is that meant to be a negative comment about Cantonese speakers?  o.O  I think that my impression from Chinese (mainlanders) is that if it's not Mandarin, or a dialect they speak, they look down upon or think negatively of other dialects.  Just as I've found many northerners absolutely hate Taiwanese Mandarin (not Taiwanese dialect, but the way Taiwanese people speak Mandarin).  But I've never heard a Taiwanese tell me they hate the way other Chinese people speak Chinese. 

  • Ejdnzlaj
    Ejdnzlaj wrote:

    Yeah, I've noticed that all dialects that aren't the speakers own are "uncultured" or "uncivilised"

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    。。。

    (continued) ... hahahaha ... but similar "discussion" also happens in the English language world ... British vs America Vs Australia Vs New Zealand Vs Sth Africa ...

  • Bryan (賴宏杰)

    Kieran:  It's a mainland Chinese phenomenon in my experience.  I've never heard anything negative from Hong Kong people or Taiwanese people with regards to other Chinese speakers accents or dialects.  But you are totally correct.  I've even heard some Beijing people say that southern accent, like Taiwanese Mandarin is uneducated.  Yet for a long time, Taiwan and Hong Kong have long enjoyed some of the highest literacy rates in the world...go figure.  (this is not meant to be a political thing on my end, so please don't anyone take it that way).

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    (continued) ... in my opinion, it is more about tolerance ... or flexibility?

    I believe most people in Hong Kong (esp people who has been there for a long time or grew up there) have high tolerance for badly spoken Cantonese ... either Chinese or foreigners ... yes, we do make fun of them, but we wont go "blank" and said something like we dont understand ...

    Even when I went to Taiwan, my badly spoken Mandarin seemed to survive quite well ..

    However, as embarassed as it is, I had often been told within mainland that my badly spoken Mandarin cannot be understood, because I dont speak it properly ...

    Ideas?

  • Bryan (賴宏杰)

    Moonriver, you are right, much of popular Chinese entertainment culture such as music and films and dramas seems to come from Taiwan and Hong Kong.  To that point you are correct.  However, Beijingers have told me that they usually hate talking with a Taiwanese person as their Mandarin tends to be softer, and they don't pronounce their "h" sounds as distinctly.  like 老師 as "lao sih" instead of "lao shi".  or that they say things like "ok啦".  I've had a few people complain about my mandarin as they say it's too Taiwan style. 

  • Yanni
    Yanni wrote:

    cantonese sometimes sounds like chopping vegetables...

  • Bryan (賴宏杰)

    叮噹:  My experience is that most of HK people speak mandarin in a similar way to Taiwanese people.  So if you want to be most compatible as a HK background person or Cantonese person, you should practice with Taiwanese speakers.  But I have no idea if that's practical or feasible for you where you are.  Even as an American, my Chinese teacher asked me to stay after class one day.  Her first question:  "Are you from Taiwan?  (born and grow up there)"  Me:  "No."  (with super confused look on her face)  "Did you live in Taiwan or go to Taiwan?"  Me:  "No."  (now even more confused) "How is it that you have such a Taiwanese accent?"  Me:  "Oh.  I have a lot of friends from Taiwan and work in a Taiwanese restaurant." 

  • Bryan (賴宏杰)

    I laughed inside.  What are the odds that a white person would be born and raised in Taiwan?  and if so, why would I be taking Chinese classes in the US?  Hong Kong was unlikely too, but I think a little more plausible than being from Taiwan as a white person.  go figure.  lol.

  • Bryan (賴宏杰)

    Yanni, so you don't listen to Cantopop?  (cantonese popular music)

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    (continued) ... hahahaha ... Yanni ...you are thinking about Cantonese food :)

  • Yanni
    Yanni wrote:

    haha...Bryan,i couldn't understand catonese most of time,but sometimes i could sing the song and i know how to pronounce...(yes,some of their songs are very nice)

  • Yanni
    Yanni wrote:

    hahahaha...DD,it's lunch time,i couldn't help myself thinking about their foods... :P

  • Bryan (賴宏杰)

    乾炒牛河!叉燒!我要吃那個菜!:)

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    (continued) ... Bryan ... are you in BJ? There are a few fairly authentic Cantonese restaurants here if you are interested ...

    Yanni ... you just need to understand what I will cook for you, or where and what we will eat ... hahaha ...

  • Yanni
    Yanni wrote:

    灌汤包啊,灌汤包...(带虾仁的) :P

  • Bryan (賴宏杰)

    I'm not in BJ.  :(  I'm in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania atm.  There is only one restaurant here that I've found that has good (authentic) 乾炒牛河.  they have another variation of it that has water spinach?  and it's a little bit spicy?  i like that a lot.  I'd love to learn to cook that dish!

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    (continued) ... today's lunchbox (leftover from last night) is 豉汁蒸排骨 and 鸡汁炒菜心 ...

    Bryan ... I dropped geography many years ago, so I dont know how far are you from NYC ... but I love the Shanghai restautants in Flushing ... last time there was 1999 ...

  • Yanni
    Yanni wrote:

    hahahaha...DD,i bring myself and you bring your menu and foods...

  • Bryan (賴宏杰)

    I'm about a 5-6 hour drive from NYC.  I live in the "Most Liveable" city in the US, lol.

  • Bryan (賴宏杰)

    Ami, I've always heard that too. 

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    (continued) ... I am sure that wont work in China, heehee ...

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    (continued) .. it is understandable ... if you happen to dine at one of the Chinese restaurants in Ashfield of Sydney, you would get better service if you can speak Shanghai ...

    The Chinese saying that pops to my mind is: 人離郷贱,物離郷贵... and I can always remember the first time I went to Chinatown of Brisbane when I was attending boarding school ... the sight of HK newspapers and magazines, and food, and most importantly Cantonese speaking people ...

  • Jenny&King
    Jenny&King wrote:

    Ah..........

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)
  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    。。。

    (continued) ... Q ... I dont know, but the chance is slim ... but there is a population of "foreigners" in Beijing who either originated from HK or came from Cantonese-speaking Chinatowns from overseas, so you could perhaps try that ...

    Luxin ... I was going to suggest 金鼎轩 on 大屯路, especially when you now live so close, but I found that they have recently changed their cooking ... the idiots thought that 辣 in Cantonese cooking means putting satay sauce into the beef ...

    You might want to go to 避风塘 over at 嘉茂 in Wang Jing, they have better Cantonese style food ... just take bus 538 at the stop outside 金鼎轩 。。。

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    (continued) ... also 凯富酒店, cannot remember the second or third floor ...

  • Holly㊛
    Holly㊛ wrote:

    i can speaking cantonese...hahaha....

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    。。。

    Hahahahaha ... both you girls speak Cantonese? How sweet!

    Janice. how are these two restaurants?

  • Peter S 李贝勒

    I'm in Hong Kong till sunday... I have the feeling that cantonese is a bird language. ;-)

  • Schokoschoko
    Schokoschoko wrote:

    everybody says cantonese sounds like a bird language:-)

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    (continued) ... hahahaha ... you dont really know very many people, do you?

  • Schokoschoko
    Schokoschoko wrote:

    i didn't say i know very many people:-), i only said everybody says -> a prevailing opinion that the language sounds like a bird language.

    which i have nothing to go againt, the language stands out itself with its unique and interesting phonic character.

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    (continued) ... heehee ... I will repeat, you dont really know very many people, do you? Or rather, define "everybody"?

  • Schokoschoko
    Schokoschoko wrote:

    explained above already, a lot of people, people i know and people i don't know, there is no clear-cut range of the group. it's like when you talk about cars, you may say "everybody knows the brand Mercedes-Benz". you don't define the everybody in this sentence, it has nothing to do with whether you know many people or not, coz this is prevailing understanding of the society

    why do you need to particularly pick that one word, i find it rather annoying. if you like, i can change the word "everybody" to "a lot of people". i don't even see the point of picking it up.

    end of discussion

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    (continued) ... hahahaha .. I dont know, it's just me ... I guess ...

    everybody knows the brand Mercedes-Benz

    you don't define the everybody in this sentence, it has nothing to do with whether you know many people or not, coz this is prevailing understanding of the society

  • Peter S 李贝勒

    @Schokoschoko yes, yes that's true, many people say it's a "bird language"...

    i really like Cantonese, it's really full of music... it's a language who sings, probably cause of the 9 tones?

  • Schokoschoko
    Schokoschoko wrote:

    @Piter S: I think so, for non-Cantonese speakers it sounds way much different than mandarin and probably it's also fun to listen.:-)

    Even I, as native speaker recognize how different I sound when I speak Cantonese from when I speak other languages.

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    。。。

    Hahahahaha ... as a native Cantonese speaker ... ... never mind, you dont really need to know that ...

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)
  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    哈哈哈哈,Crystal,你还在北京吗?

    虽然我的普通话不好,但恐怕我没有时间去 Exchange !我最近开始帮一个朋友学广东话,你有兴趣嘛?

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