Discussion » Chinese Language & Culture » Parents in china raise kids for pension?

  • Min Liu
    Min Liu wrote:
    <p>Once i have heard a voice saying that chinese parents are selfish --the reason they raise children&nbsp;is to&nbsp;have someone to count on&nbsp;when they are old. I disputed that opinion .</p> <p>"We have to know where you settle down , and your dad and I will move to the same city you choose."After my own mother raised a funny question to me with a worried look :"Are you gonna take care of me and your dad when we are too old to move around?"&nbsp;&nbsp; I became speechless.</p> <p>As a Chinese, of course I have the Chinese family value, I understand my parents concerns, but when I was facing a question like that, it really put me to wonder --Do parents really raise&nbsp;children&nbsp;for their pension? Their love is an investment for them, an insurance for them? Did they make tremendous sacrifice and love their children with purpose?</p> <p>and then I got scared......</p>
  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    。。。

    Hahahaha ... unless I have mistaken, "pension" is more a financial thing, right? So, I think you actually meant to say "for retirement"?

    There is a traditional Chinese saying ”养儿防老", so the "simple" answer would be "yes", but there is far more than that, and to say that your parents "loved" you because you are an "investment", it sounded cold ... on the other hand, I have heard of a few cases where the parents "demanded" their daughter to marry someone with money, so that they can be "taken care of", and when she refused, they tried to sell her how much they have done for her and all that, but that's off topic ...

    When we get old, it gets difficult, and sometimes (literally) painful to look after ourselves, so it is not unreasonable to "find" a caretaker, whether it be a paid employee or nurse, or a family member ... though I dont know your particular situation, my guess is that they dont mean financially ... right?

  • A豆腐
    A豆腐 wrote:

    some chinese parents....

    - What did your parents give you on your b-day ?
    - Nothing, they said that I should give them a gift, because they gave the life....

  • High Priest
    High Priest wrote:

    Min Liu is refering pension to retirement. 

    Parents are very important part in children's life. They did too much sacrifice to raise a child, in good time and hard times. There's no amount of cash that can compensate their sacrifice. Children who understand what parents mean to them, have no boundery in doing what it is needed to give a shelter to them when they are weak and in need...

    My concern with Chinese philosophy of taking care of parents doesn't work well with me. I see Parents in their 50s asking their son to stay with them in the same Condo or not to move far away from their city coz they've got to take care of them. This is sacrificing children career, future and happiness.

    A friend of mine in Tianjing, after completing his MA in France, came bk and wanted to work in Bj or Shanghai where he could get a handsome salary, his mom told him not to do so, as he couldn't object, he is in TJ working for RMB1800...whereas he couldn't make more than 10k in Bj.

    Overall, Parents should be honored to be taken care of when they are old, how? that's the question.

    High Priest

  • Min Liu
    Min Liu wrote:

    yeah, i did mean "for retirement"---need work on my English:)

    By taking care of them, my mother (literally) meant to stay around with them helping them with daily basis when they are old and weak. I dont mind at all to support them financially in any ways,but the idea that we all have to stay together is scaring me somehow.

    The story of friend of yours(high priest) is sad.I was able to get out of my parent's sight and found a nice pay job in beijng ,but they are never happy about that tho.

    Now I just feel more pressured when i was on that subject with my mother, while i'm still trying to work out the best out of my own life with my own problems.

  • High Priest
    High Priest wrote:

    @Min Liu, you are one of the few rare Chinese young people with a thinking like this. It's a nice you mom at least isn't imposing you to do something, she is requesting you and it's up to you to say yes or no.

    Personally, she sounds concerned about their end of days as they will be weak...This is a serious problem many Chinese families are facing due to one Child poicy. In other places, children can discuss and see how to take care of the aged parents. My friend, is 67 and has siblings, his mom is 96 years old back in the US in Little Rock, they agreed to hire and care taker of their aged mom, they've provided a home and once in while, they go there to Spend time with her, they call her often times as they are working far away from her.

    What u need it to figure out a better way u could take care of them even if they are not in ur condo. But, I'm woried, as I see ur ID u r married, what will happened if ur hubby take his own parents to live u guys? I wish Chinese couple should have discussions b4 they do different things.

    High Priest

  • Simen Wangberg

    My grandaunt is in her 70s. She mows her own lawn, about an acre or two of grass, every week - when it's not snowing. Cos when it's snowing, she shovels her own driveway + portion of the sidewalk. I tried to help her with this when I was still living in my hometown, but she never let me, cos she said I "did it all wrong."

    I understand health care in China isn't all that great, but...what the fuck. I almost get killed by old people on a regular basis when I'm just getting on the damn bus.

    I still don't understand a lot of Chinese ideas regarding health and old age. I mean, I understand them when they're explained to me - but that shit just does not comply with any of the anatomical and biological knowledge I've gleaned over the years. I'm not a doctor, but...what the fuck, TCM. WTF. BBQ.

    But yeah. Elderly Chinese parents can shove it. Womp womp. I think they pull that shit on you guys cos they're old and they feel entitled and lazy or whathaveyou. Chumps. Not that I wouldn't do the same thing, especially if it's backed by "cultural precedent" or something.

    WIPE MY ASS COS FIVE THOUSAND YEARS OF CULTURE.

    It will be awesome to be old. I will just be a huge prick to everyone.

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    My mom jokes about me supporting her when she gets old; she's a nurse, so she's got a solid retirement plan.

    Speaking of old people and entitlements, the whole American baby boomer generation can go get fucked. Those assholes elected Reagan and started the trend of cutting social investments, but they'll certainly squeal about any changes to Medicare or Social Security. It's this generation that believes the government can't do anything right, while at the same time benefiting the most from government programs. My parents are merely pitiably misguided, but their generation as a whole makes me utterly nauseous.

    Chinese parents support their younglings to a later age than Western parents (my folks wouldn't even pay for my school tuition), but anyone who thinks it's because of generosity or moral superiority is a dumbass. It's the most selfish selflessness! These parents are banking on filial piety. And since most of them only have one account, it can be a risky investment requiring a lot of financial micromanagement. If I were a Chinese kid (especially a spoiled post-90s brat), I would opt for a strategic default.

  • Even Nygård
    Even Nygård wrote:

    @Dando Z 单独子儿: You are dead on about the boomers.

  • Saint - Spartacus

    it's not about pension, it's a will to be cared

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    Funny that you should say that, @Astaroth. I often wish I had been a university student during the mid 1960s. It was probably the last opportunity for any sort of effective youth political movement, but it got all fucked up and fizzled out before the early 70s.

    ...

    "It is proven (by development economists) that when child mortality rates (CMR) fallen the delayed affect was that also the fertility rates (TFR) also decreased."

    That's not a delayed effect. It's a spurious correlation.

    BTW, it's awfully cute that you threw in a few superfluous acronyms to give such nonsense a pseudoscientific veneer.

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    Acronyms don't help people with reference; spelling out "infant mortality rate" and "total fertility rate" is what helps people find information quickly, as it is less ambiguous (see also: search engine optimization). CMR, however, is completely fucking wrong and demonstrative of a certain degree of pseudointellectualism--you did, in fact, fabricate this particular acronym, you fucking asshole.

    Rather, acronyms are utilized for saving space; as you only used each phrase once, that's not necessary here. As English doesn't appear to be your first language, this is forgiveable.

    However, you seem to have commited a bit of a disciplinary 班门弄斧. You see, I liked "development economics" before it was cool fashionably marketable. That is, when it was humbly referred to as sociology, and "econometrics" was just quantitative methods, something at which I happened to excel, if only due to the gentle bigotry of low expectations. Nobody expects liberal arts majors to be handy with numbers.

    Go figure.

    My point is that if you're going to so arrogantly tell someone to go back to school, you might do better to use the proper disciplinary jargon.

    I think the central premise of that TED talk eludes you. Relying on national statistics (particularly GDP) as a causal determinant is quite wrong. You're committing much the same error by saying declining fertility rates are caused by declining infant mortality rates, a statement which is hilariously mendacious considering the part of the planet where you are presently living.

  • Simen Wangberg

    Because China so many people.

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    I mislike answering uncleverly disguised rhetorical questions. Why don't you make your point directly, and nix the speculative boasting?

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    I said to make your point. Do you have one to make, besides that you went to school somewhere and you listen to TED talks? After all, that a presumably inexperienced layman such as myself can correct you on your use of the relevant jargon suggests that your expertise is really quite negligible.

    You seem to be taking for granted that everyone within your very narrow social science sub-discipline agrees with this utterly fatuous statement:

    "It is proven (by development economists) that when child mortality rates (CMR) fallen the delayed affect was that also the fertility rates (TFR) also decreased."

    In statistical methods, there is no distinction for such a thing as a "delayed effect". Either there is a causal relationship or there isn't; I suggested it was merely a correlation and you decided to fall back upon your spectacularly unimpressive academic credentials instead of presenting a compelling argument.

    So, excuse me, but which one of us is taking this personally? Since when is scepticism indicative of a political agenda or irrational slavery to "gut instincts"?

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    。。。

    Hahahaha ... just off topic ... but MIB sounds very much like another frequent forum-er ...

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    Ya reckon?

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    (continued) .... his manner and politeness, even the typing errors, are very much alike ... only that he does seem more intelligent, so I dont know :)

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    En. That's better. But there's still no mention of infant mortality rate in any of that, chum.

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    I can indeed put two and two together, but that would be hypothesizing, not "proving" a causal relationship, as you had originally asserted.

    "the child can die also after 5 or 10 years"

    And now you're not even talking about infant mortality rate anymore, which just goes to show that the statistic itself is just a vague indicator, not a causal phenomenon.

  • Ataahua
    Ataahua wrote:

    mine excluded

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    (continued) ... heehee ... I am the stupid one ... glad that my wife is the smart one :)

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    。。。

    (continued) ... heehee ... if she did use other means, do you think I would know about it?

  • Ataahua
    Ataahua wrote:

    i wanna know all the vitues of dd's wife 'cause she seems a very nice wife

    at least if my husband spent too much time talkin with young girls online, even going out for dinners, i would be greatly pissed off and ground him........so teach me to be a better lady, uncle please

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    (continued) ...

    ... maybe I just have a very dirty mind, but when Ata said "so teach me to be a better lady, uncle please", it somehow sounded very suggestive, or even seductive ... yeah, I just have a dirty mind ...

    Lee ... heehee ... the "no child" decision was too complex for me to explain :)
  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    (continued) ... Lee ... if you are dead serious about wanting to know how we have come to that decision, PM me ... but, be warned, you could be bored to death ...

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    So you're not talking about "CMR" or "infant mortality rate" but the "under 5 mortality rate". Now that's a little bit more clear. Why did it take you half a dozen posts to clear this up? Why did you instead resolve to muddy the waters with irrelevant nonsense like TED talks, nebulous references to your academic credentials, and a copy-paste of the works cited page of your undergraduate thesis?

    "I would like to read related research that disproves this claim."

    The burden of proof is on you, buddy. I'm not questioning the existence of a relationship between child mortality and fertility. It's certainly there. I'm questioning the way in which you characterized it as a "delayed effect."

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    (continued) ... just trying to understand this ... as Dando said, this is NOT about CMR, then why keep dragging back to it? I am very confused :)

  • Ataahua
    Ataahua wrote:

    uncle, how did what i asked give you a dirty mind? i simply asked you to tell me how your wife handles u :PPP

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    (continued) ... heehee ... like I had said, I have a dirty mind, too dark for you to understand :)

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    That's your fuck-up, kid. Not mine. You should have said the "under 5 mortality rate" in the first place. As I pointed out, CMR is an improper and ambiguous acronym that you fabricated. And it's utter cock-ups like this that make me less than likely to take your word for it when you claim to represent the broad opinion of "development economists".

    I'm sceptical because you're strugglying to explain the relationship as concisely as other people in this thread who aren't claiming expertise.

    Again, I'm not questioning the existence of the relationship. I'm pointing out that there's a big difference between an observed correlationship and a proven causal relationship. The under 5 statistic is not a discrete phenomenon, but an indicator. To call it a "delayed effect" is to misrepresent the nature of the relationship.

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    So now this is a problem with my understanding and not a problem with your ability to communicate? Haha. Keep telling yourself that.

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    It'd be easier to Google if you gave the commonly accepted terms. How can you blame me for improperly concluding that you meant "infant mortality rate." That one actually is abbreviated as IMR, unlike the child mortality rate. Especially after you assented after the first time I corrected you.

    "50% of the fall in fertility over time can be explained by the growth of the pension system."

    I never questioned this. I questioned this:

    "It is proven (by development economists) that when child mortality rates (CMR) fallen the delayed affect was that also the fertility rates (TFR) also decreased,"

    because it's not a cause-effect relationship. There's no such thing as a "delayed effect". The relationship is spurious. Understand?

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    (continued) ... just picking up bits and pieces, but MIB said "Not gonna start this discussion once again" ... damn, the name is there, but I cannot quite get who (or whom) ...

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    "http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/d/d/6/dd66ca47c73f45da7df73a092a6b3003.png"

    Would you be so kind as to provide a link to the Wikipedia article from which you stole that image?

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    I did study logic. That doesn't mean I necessarily recognize set theory expressions when they're being woefully misapplied. It would seem as though you've conflated "equivalence" with "equivocation".

    Here's something I also have only passing familiarity with, as a lowly liberal arts major: Latin. Nonetheless, I do understand the phrases "non sequitur" and "cum hoc ergo propter hoc".

    Do you?

  • Checkered
    Checkered wrote:

    Whether it's a bias or not, it brought out opinions, which are what I like to read.

Please login to post a reply to this thread.

WeLiveInBeijing

WeLiveInBeijing.com is a social community for people living in or traveling to Beijing.

Powered by: Bloc