Discussion » Beijing Life » New Chinese Marriage Law

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    This was discussed in an earlier thread in Chinese. Lamentably, I wasn't able to participate because I am one of those dreadful 洋鬼子 who don't bother to learn Chinese.

    Marriage Law’s latest judicial interpretation controversy, accused of favoring the already advantaged

    via ChinaSMACK (link)

    “Whoever paid the down payment is whoever the house should belong to following a divorce”, “The other party has shall have no right to divide up a house purchased and given by one’s parents following marriage”… The publishing of the Supreme People’s Court’s judicial interpretation of the latest Marriage Law immediately ignited fierce arguments between men and women online. Many netizens believe the new Marriage law is “good news” for men, protecting their advantageous position in a marriage, and damaging the interests of the weaker party.

    My opinion on this shouldn't surprise anyone, but I'd like to get a discussion going before I start kicking ass and taking names.

    Anyway, inb4 butthurt divorced white guys


  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    You're a clever girl, Ada.

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    Hahahahaha ... I am back ... not much better, probably worse than ever ...

    As far as I can see, this (stupid) law was designed to protect the husbands from losing everything (or half of it?) in the case of a divorce, so that:

    1. the women would not plan to wed and then divorce for the money (that reminds me of that girl who said "I would rather cry in a BMW")

    2. parents who had paid part (of all) of the deposit, or down payment, would not lose that to the daughter-in-law ...

    However, it can go far deeper than that ... if I understand correctly, Chinese law does not allow property to be co-owned (but I am probably very wrong here?), so even if the "wife" might have contributed to the "down payment" and/or "paying off", she is not entitled to anything ... and in general, the ”wife" is not entitled to anything anyway because of this ...

  • Ejdnzlaj
    Ejdnzlaj wrote:

    Wonderful, a law that takes steps backwards

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    @Godfather, There is no "winner take all." Whoever makes the down payment keeps the house after the divorce, regardless of whose fault it was for the marriage to fall apart. It'd be nice if you actually read the article before you post something totally mendacious.

    Chinese girls do not gain any special legal rights for marrying foreigners. That's complete nonsense.

    @Kieran, IKNORITE?

  • A豆腐
    A豆腐 wrote:

    Now the catholic marriage contract seems a good option in China, more reliable... unhappy together in the wealth and in the poverty... O_o

  • Simen Wangberg

    Maybe I'm not thinking about this enough, but I don't see what's wrong with this particular bit of legislation. It cuts both ways, does it not? That is, if the wife is the one who puts the down payment on the house, she gets to keep it in the case of a divorce.

    I mean, how is this any different from prenuptial agreements in the West? I don't know. I just think anything that encourages Chinese women to be more self-dependent + discourages people from getting married (read: increasing China's already-enormous population) can't be that bad.

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    That begs the question: are women equally able to make a down payment on a house, considering the current state of gender inequality in China?

    Divorce law tends to favor women in Western countries. Why do you think that is?

  • Ejdnzlaj
    Ejdnzlaj wrote:

    Divorce law favours women because the vast majority of the time, they'll be the ones taking the kids. I think that's reason enough. If there are no kids I don't think there should be any favouring, if the man is taking the kids I think it should favour him.

    Also, I don't think women are equally able to make a down payment on a house and that is the problem with this law.

  • Simen Wangberg

    I was under the same impression as Kieran - that since the wife usually ends up taking the kids, she also ends up acquiring most of the husband's assets cos she has to provide for the children and whathaveyou.

    I wasn't aware that income inequalities had anything to do with it, I guess that sorta makes sense? Although I think these things should be handled on a case-by-case basis anyway.

    I still think this law could/would encourage Chinese ladies to work a little harder to get theirs. I understand there's a pile of customs/regulations/traditions that essentially prevent women from making the kind of scratch that you'd need to buy a house, but...well, I don't know, actually.

    I remember reading something not long ago that said half of the world's female billionaires are Chinese. I suppose that doesn't mean much for the millions of Chinese women who aren't lucky enough to find themselves in a situation where they can make that kind of money...

    I guess the thing that comes to mind is that they should work on creating laws/regulations that actually allow women to become financially independent enough to be able to buy a house in the first place. However, I also like the idea of discouraging women from marrying someone just because of their wealth or social status or whatever. But that's a whole other barrel of monkeys.

    We discussed this a little bit at work - anyone know what happens to kids here when parents split? Is it similar to the West, e.g. wife almost always takes the kids, or is it done differently here?

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    (continued) ... if I could just mention two things, based on what Kieran said ...

    1. of many (not majority) of the divorces and seperations I have seen in China over the last few years, though not too many, the fathers do tend to care for the child upon seperation ...

    ... and possibly the only exception would be when the mother happens to be a mistress (or similar) ...

    2. and although gender equality is not "common" in China, capable single females are more than able to make down payment on their own, because Chinese females "tend" to have better saving habits ... and of course this does not apply to everyone ...

  • Ejdnzlaj
    Ejdnzlaj wrote:

    I remember someone telling me that for some reason divorce is really, really bad in respect to the children so it never really happens very much. Maybe it's just cultural stigma though? I don't know, can't remember.

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    (continued) ... Kieran ... you heard right ... but the thing is that, Chinese tend to not think about the kids when they go for divorce, it's a "you vs me" situation ...

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    @DD, Really? Because the "think of the kids" mentality is really prominent in the US. I would have thought that the stigma against divorce would manifest itself in much the same way in China. Then again, compared to America, grandparents have a more prominent role in child-rearing in China, so it's not automatic for the wife to retain custody of the kids.

    I came from a broken home and I lived with my grandparents for a while. I turned out pretty okay (fuck you!), so I can attest to this "it takes a village" approach to raising kids.

    ...

    On one hand, I think that by not sharing assets with the spouse (such as a home), the new law ironically nullifies a lot of the advantages to marriage. Folks might remember during the gay marriage discussions, I argued that if gay marriage is unacceptable to heterofaggots, then the alternative should be for straight couples to relinquish the special legal privileges that come with state-sanctioned marriage. This would seem to be a blind, drunken stumble in that direction. Viewed this way, I see where @Michael is coming from when he says that anything which discourages people from getting hitched and breeding is A Good Fucking Thing.

    On the other hand, marriage, divorce, and other family institutions are ostensibly feminist, and ought to stay that way. Women sacrifice the most in the domestic sphere, and that's why, broadly, they should be entitled to alimony and part of the man's assets in case of a divorce. Starting a family can cripple a woman's career.

    This thread is turning into a fucking sausage fest. I know the hens clucked about this crap last week, but I couldn't keep up with the conversation. Ladies: thoughts?

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    (continued) ... sausage fest? I dont see a BBQ ... heehee

    Dando ... as a proof, though perhaps not a very good one, after much consideration, we have chosen not to have a child, however, I have often heard the advice "you are thinking too much, just bring a child to this world first" ... so I have come to a rather loose conclusion myself: many people believe that a child would help bring a marriage closer (or something like that), but once the marriage goes downhills, the "child" has lost its purpose ... yeah, I know, it is very crude and loose ... but I dont have that level of intelligence ... heehee ...

  • Saint - Spartacus

    the kid is the key to keep a marriage in continuity

  • Even Nygård
    Even Nygård wrote:

    @叮噹叔叔 As I understand it, in a case where both parties paid into the down payment prior to the marriage, the court is expected to split its value in terms of the percentage each partner contributed.

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    @Saintro, That's what my mom thought when she stopped taking birth control pills without telling my dad. Then they had me.

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    (continued) ... Derrick ... that's good to know, but as some of us say in Chinese, "money has no eyes", so unless there is a good enough trace of paperwork or contract (prenub?), it is "your say versus mine" whether how much did the wife contribute to the down payment ...

    Saintro ... from my own observations around me, limited as it might be, if a marriage should need a child to continue, then this marriage is often not a happy one, and neither will the child be ...

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    Hahahaha ... GF ... for many women, marriage equates to security, and for the three things you mentioned:

    1. car - the minute the car is driven, it depreciates

    2. stocks - not stable enough, and it is generally downhill at the moment in China

    3. company - again, not enough stability

    ... so property becomes a very good guarantee of "security" ...

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    @Godfather, You still haven't read the article yet, have you?

    In case you missed it the first time, here's the link. You're welcome.

     

  • Even Nygård
    Even Nygård wrote:

    @叮噹叔叔: "Money has no eyes" is certainly true. One would hope that for an investment as serious as a home, you would keep impeccable financial records.

    I don't think it would be entirely out of the question to get the contributions in writing and have a letter signed by a notary in this day and age.

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    。。。

    (continued) ... it is difficult to say whether everyone will keep good record, but with the new law, my guess is that they will start to learn now :)

    I was just wandering, and someone mentioned that with the new law, the husband has the right to divorce if the wife does not bear child? That reminds me of the ancient Chinese "law" called "七出之条" ...

  • High Priest
    High Priest wrote:

    So serioursly I think this new marriage law will make things too hard for girls who selected to marry men who had apartment already and who  got cars.

    That's the reason why I've notices some fastest marriage since my entire life in China. U meet a girl who doesn't have a bf, just after one month if u meet her she tells u I got marriage aleady, why? Coz she met someone who've got these assets. Amazing.

    High Priest

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    Hahahaha ... GF ... in such case, as there is no property-related asset, this part of the law has no relevance ... and you point is?

    ... interestingly, the law does not seem to cover dependents? or did I miss it?

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