Discussion » Nonsense » Would the world be better without Religion?

  • Evanescence
    Evanescence wrote:

    Since Religion is the accepted insanity , what if there's no single religion in this world?

    Would it be better or worse? 

  • Le lyriciste Bantou

    Yeah Swagg,i agree with ur words,i think the world would not be better without Religion...

  • A豆腐
    A豆腐 wrote:

    Old saying: “When a finger points to the moon, the imbecile looks at the finger
    The main language of the religions is the symbolic language, and what they say (in general) is pretty cool, if you can dig beyond the surface.

    The big problem is: religions tend to create theocracies after the dead of the big masters. Theocracies, these bunches of morons trying to rule the world without understand the symbolic language of their own texts, That is the real insanity and cancer of the religion.

     

    A world without Buddha sucks !!

  • A豆腐
    A豆腐 wrote:

    they are waiting ........

  • Le lyriciste Bantou

    @.rOkOIOkO.:

    Haha. Why need a life again.. Oh, Come on! I prefer just let me die and feel nothing.. XD

    Don't u ever want to do something that u've  done before again?It's the same like living again...........

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    Hahahahahahaha ... another Pisa masterpiece ...

    ...

    Back on track?

    What happened to the Priest lately, by the way? Being spanked by the Big Boss? heehee ...

     

  • 申琪 Annie Shen

    dont think so.

  • Stine Ekren
    Stine Ekren wrote:

    we human beings are so weak minded that have to use Religion stuff to pacify our minds and souls? what on earth Religion have given us except those blockbuster lies, Homophobe, Xenophobe, Sexism, Racism and War...?

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    Hahahaha ... yes, all that and also some "hope" ... false, blinded and ignorant as it might be ...

    Once, before I "turned", when I thought I actually had goodness in myself, I believed religion was the way to go ...

    In general, religion is just a subset of idealism ... a foggy direction, one that says "nothing can stand in my way" ...

    ... if anyone has watched Star Gate, would know what I mean ...

     

  • Stine Ekren
  • Ola Sande
    Ola Sande wrote:

    你猜~

  • Tahjay
    Tahjay wrote:

    There's nothing wrong wtih religion as long as it is practiced in private, and not forced upon anyone else.  It is organized religion that makes people discriminate against others and do more evil than good. 

    I have another view on religion that I think most people can agree on.  If you know what Pascal's Wager is, you will find out by simple game theory that people don't actually actually believe in god because they are sure he/she exists.  They actually believe because they are afraid that in case there is a hell, they will be sent there for not believing.  Also social factors make us "religious" eg, everyone else is then I should be too kind of thinking.  However, most people just 平时不烧香,临时抱佛脚

  • Stine Ekren
    Stine Ekren wrote:

    Pump!!!

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)
  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    Ugh. Don't invite him. The less of his hollow aphorisms and deceptive horseshit polluting the forums, the better. You guys take HP's proselytizing way too seriously. He's not even earnest about it. It's just a smokescreen.

  • Stine Ekren
    Stine Ekren wrote:

    need more inputs from true believers...

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    Hahahahaha ... 马克 ... always good to see you online ... got any plan for Friday?

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    Hahahahaha ... I might ... I will call you ... same number?

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    (continued) ... no worries ...

    Dando ... heehee ... the day he decided to call himself "Priest", and continued to do so, was good enough reason to invite him ... now this feels like a Jerry Springer ...

  • Stine Ekren
    Stine Ekren wrote:

    @马克,haha, u r right, stupidity is limitless ,and the mankind of knowledge and cognition is a quite  tiny part relative to the whole world.I might be slightly offended the true-belivers by starting this thread  but I don't remember where I did mentioned the Religion is the evil.I mainly held the idea the world would be better without religion since it has created numerous problems in the world as people followed the hidebound doctrines falsely according to their devil purposes and necessities cos of their ignorance,stupidity,greed or whatever else,it seemed religion has created pretext for them for being haters and hypocrites,  and I don't think our morality is  based on the religion ,no religion dosen't mean people have no faith,why would we belive those divinities which doesn’t even exist?

    If u r the true believer, please enlighten us stupids what has religion given us ? comfort ? the hope for afterlife?

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    ...马克, That "no offense" isn't fooling anyone; calling someone stupid for not showing adequate deference to your imaginary sky grandfather is not very Christ-like.

    Some of us are hostile to religion precisely because we are exceptionally well educated regarding it. And guess what? Neither is everyone is as graceful and pleasant as Evanescence when they're labelled thusly.

  • High Priest
    High Priest wrote:

    @E aka Gloria, there's never a stupid question. You question is deeper. As to go straight to your answer, I'd say the contrary wouldn't make the world better place either.

    Let me be honest with you here. It's sad sometime to see some barbaric deeds from religious in the past. Catholic Church with its crusade shed blood if too many people. Many missionaries who went around the world to establish churches used religion as a mean of colonizing countries. Once I read King Leopold II speech to the missionaries I almost stopped believing that the Lord I’m worshiping is the true one. Adding to the information Scott shared, we saw what happened inRwanda, a Country that had most Christians killing each other. InSouth Africamany Christians were among those suppressing the other race. South American came up with liberation theology as a reaction to the poverty caused by social injustice in the SA…

    Is religion to blame for the problem the world is having? I don’t think so; people are the ones to be blamed as they misused religion in order to meet their goals. Man is not perfect as we know.

    So what does the Bible tell us about religion? Here some scriptures.

    Isaiah 29:13, NIV. "The Lord says: 'These people come near to Me with their mouth and honor Me with their lips, but their hearts are far from Me. Their worship of Me is made up only of rules taught by men.'"

    True religion is focused on Jesus, not philosophies. It's in the Bible, Colossians 2:8, TLB. "Don't let others spoil your faith and joy with their philosophies, their wrong and shallow answers built on men's thoughts and ideas, instead of on what Christ has said."

    True religion bears spiritual fruit. It's in the Bible, Matthew 21:43, NIV. "Therefore I tell you that thekingdom ofGod will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit."

    True religion is doing for others and staying true to the Lord. It's in the Bible, James 1:27, NIV. "Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world."

    High Priest

  • A豆腐
    A豆腐 wrote:

    [...]True religion is focused on Jesus, not philosophies. It's in the Bible, Colossians 2:8, TLB. "Don't let others spoil your faith and joy with their philosophies, their wrong and shallow answers built on men's thoughts and ideas, instead of on what Christ has said." [...]

    what Christ has said, huh? 

    A pity that Jesus didn´t write any gospel, and the first gospel has been written around 40 years after his death, resurrection, whatever

    The best of Christianism is not in bibles, is in The Last Temptation of Christ, the novel by Nikos Kazantzakis or the great movie (same name) by Martin Scorsese, or The Gospel In Brief by Leo Tolstoy. They are very good stuff if someone wants to know the true christian values.

    To be a moron zealot, just need read literally the bible.

     

     

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    (continued) ... just to clarify, I am not a clone of the Priest ...

    Like I had said before ... if anyone had bothered to read ... religion is only a subset of ideals, mostly about how to be a happier (and better?) person, hence you must do this and that, but you must not do certain things ...

    Actually, as I am only a beginner in my evil cult, but much of it and/or satanic worshippers have something similar, except that they tend more towards sex and drugs? heehee ... anyway ...

    I would ask the same, or similar, questions ...

    What is China or Chinese without Confucius, or, without Marx or even Mao? (My formal study of Chinese History ended around 1930/40, so I am most likely wrong about the names) ...

    Or ... as I am the most illogical person on this site ... so I dare ask ... what is America without the constituition? I know that not every American believes in the constituition, but there are many that do ...

    The point I am trying to make here, and weak as it might be ... is that religion is just an "ideal", and like many other political or philosophical ones, that is there for people to "follow", because they think this can lead to a better and happier life ... physical, as well as spiritual ...

    The objection against religion, similar to the discussions of marriage, which most people in this forum had objected, is (probably) mostly due to all the "badness" in history ... I cannot agree more ...

    Using the "Mao" example ... I dont like China, I dont like most of which they are doing here, but I believe in the ideal of Communism ...

    Ans: because we are human, we strive to have some ideals that we can adhere to ... in this universe, we call them heaven and hell ... in the Star Gate universe, the Elders call it "ascension" ...

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    A Boss in Heaven is the best excuse for a boss on earth, therefore If God did exist, he would have to be abolished.

    --Mikhail Bakunin

    There is something innately hideous about the religious mindset, in that we should put imaginary things before addressing earthly problems. The Catholic Church's treatment of the AIDS crisis in Africa and complicity in providing refuge for proven pedophiles are but two examples of this.

    (This is for Kieran)

    What you guys are committing is a logical error known as the no true Scotsman fallacy.

    Teacher: All Scotsmen enjoy haggis.
    Student: My uncle is a Scotsman, and he doesn't like haggis!
    Teacher: Well, all true Scotsmen like haggis.

    Confronted with examples of religious wrongdoing, you claim "Ah, but that's the work of man, not of religion!" Sorry, guys, but religion IS a work of man. You're dodging the issue, and oh-so-clumsily at that.

    To paraphrase the late great Frank Zappa: if God made us in His image, that means He is pretty fucking dumb, and real fucking ugly to boot.

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    @Adolfo,

    Funny thing is in that the oldest copies of the Gospel of Mark, there IS NO resurrection. It just ends with him screaming at 'daddy'.

    I'll jam a crucifix up my ass and spin it around a few times if only to see the looks on the Xtianists' faces, but I happen to think Jesus was a pretty radical dude. It's just so unfortunate that his fan club so obnoxiously expects us to show deference to their juvenile delusions.

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    (continued) ... Priest ... and you never failed to disappoint ... quoting from the Bible about what is religion ... is one-sided ... you should really read something about Buddism as well ...I did ... it helps ..

  • Stine Ekren
    Stine Ekren wrote:

    " i would respect them even if they disagree with me" 

    I hope so. but u don't hate those anti-religions? 

    to be honest, my granma is Christian and I went to church with her every Sonday when I was perhaps in junior middle school, am quite curious about God since she has told me that Jesus will coming by the year of 2000, and I asked several childish questions to her but she didn't answer me reasonably on that, but seems like she's quite enjoying get gathering with those elderly folks to sing church songs.and I have read the Bible before but simply limited to what  Priest has refered to which sounds plausible and good, and I thought it won't do any harm to elderly folks like my granma but boons.But as the highly educated intellectuals even has beginning to believe religion which made those folks fascinated in it and believe all those intellectuals  even misleaded them into heathendom.

    I am sure u heard about Hongzhi Li in China,who has been also very popular in European countries.Look what has he done to Chinese people?

  • A豆腐
    A豆腐 wrote:

    @Dando, An end more like this in the Gospel of Mark, would been better :P mel gibson could have done a better movie, more his own style

     The vendetta of Jesus .......

    Betrayed, Abandoned, Left for dead... NOW HE COMES BACK, pray bitches

  • High Priest
    High Priest wrote:

    No one is obliged to believe.Budhism is a religion, isn't it? Islam is a religion as judaism. I gave my point of view and The so called atheist gave their own. But have those answers get the satisfaction of the OP?  Would the world be a better place without religion? I gave my own view in my post.

    :) Sure, religion can't make an occultis happy, it's normal to be disappointed. That's why we are living in this world of choice, free will. There;s a net difference between darkness and light.

    High Priest

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    @Adolfo,

    Dude that's a photo of an eight foot tall painting on black velvet that sold for a hefty sum of money at an online auction.

    You're right, but Yuen Wo Ping should do the fight choreography. Jesus could make  双截棍 out of the cross and beat the shit out of a Roman Legion.

  • Stine Ekren
    Stine Ekren wrote:

    If Christianity is preaching Love and Goodness,they should love everyone including enemies like the way in Jesus. tell me u don't hate the freak rock singer Marilyn Monson,the hater of Jesus!

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    "occultism"

    1. The study of the supernatural.
    2. A belief in occult powers and the possibility of bringing them under human control.
    (NOT the same as an atheist!)
  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    Marilyn Manson had a religious upbringing too, and he didn't really hate Jesus.

  • A豆腐
    A豆腐 wrote:

    Marilyn Manson,the hater of Jesus????  Marilyn Manson makes money using Jesus, like the Church :P

  • Ejdnzlaj
    Ejdnzlaj wrote:

    @Dando: You wouldn't belive how much they got off on the "no true Scotsman" fallacy when I took Philosophy at university. So many terrible, terrible jokes.

    Also, Bakunin is a bro. I tried to dig it out a link but couldn't find it any more. There is a Bakunin themed minor football team either in Russia or in Germany. They all have his face on their strips. It's absolutely amazing.

  • Stine Ekren
    Stine Ekren wrote:
  • A豆腐
    A豆腐 wrote:

    @Dando, that´s good idea, sure we can make more money with that movie than Jesus Christ Vampire Hunter

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    。。。

    (continued) ... heehee ... so what is happening here? I think people are avoiding the question?

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    No, Uncle. They're going all Eastern mysticism up in this motherfucker and transcending the shit out of the question.

  • A豆腐
    A豆腐 wrote:

    @Eva, outside there are things more creepy than Marilyn manson, for example

     

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    菊緊

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    。。。

    (continued) ... Dando ... heehee ... and I spent more than 30 min to type such brilliant crap ... never mind ...

  • Stine Ekren
    Stine Ekren wrote:

    what?pedophilia Pope?

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    @Uncle, I think neither of us has any right to complain when we cast pearls before swine.

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    (continued) ... but I thought with Priest here, the game is back ... heehee ...

  • A豆腐
    A豆腐 wrote:

    Maybe the popes don´t have that philia, all popes have 5 nuns to serve them..... as personal assistants.... in their urges.....

  • Stine Ekren
    Stine Ekren wrote:

    Adolfo&Dando, I heard that Marilyn Monson's family are all bombed by Christians, and he keeps rejecting the Holy Spirit ,is that possible for him set his passed family members aside to making money by his blasphemy of Jesus?

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    马克, "lame people who have nothing better to do and they try to hide the failure in life by repeating themself differently over the forums like dando Z"

    Ad hominem attacks and insults aren't very Christianly; in this thread, I haven't insulted you, but your religion (which was at one point not long ago my religion, therefore I have license to criticize it however I see fit).

    Your hypocrisy is demonstrable. And if you would address me and my words directly, your comparative ignorance would be just as demonstrable; unlike many other atheists, I've devoted a significant portion of my life to studying world religions. I fulfill the qualifications you were demanding, and yet you see fit to dismiss me as lame even though I'm being patient with you.

    Tsk, tsk.

    I'm taking the high road here and withholding my venom for the moment, not because I'm a decent or moral human being, but because I find it perversely amusing to watch ye of little faith stumble and squirm so far below the moral high ground.

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    (continued) ...

    马克: "... lame people who have nothing better to do and they try to hide the failure in life by repeating themself differently over the forums like dando Z ... " ... heehee ... does that include me?

  • High Priest
    High Priest wrote:

    Eva, don't be mislead. Religion is in the hands on human religious. Since the down of time, human has been imperfect. We've seen in the ancient time, true prophet making mistakes. Peter, Paul, Luc, Mark, Thomas, and others (Pope and his people included), have stumbled, by the word of God remains unchanged in spite of the misinterpretation from people.

    True religion is focused on Jesus, not philosophies. , Colossians 2:8, TLB. "Don't let others spoil your faith and joy with their philosophies, their wrong and shallow answers built on men's thoughts and ideas, instead of on what Christ has said."

    It would be better to read the scripture and get the full understanding before making a strongly worded statement. Religious is not a culture.

    @Yuantingting what did u say again please?

    High Priest

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    Mark, Hate Priest:

    I've read the Bible and I grew up in a densely religious environment. Moreover, I'm an officially ordained reverend of the Universal Life Church. My religious qualifications are higher than either of you.

    Yet you've got nothing to offer in response to my criticisms except personal attacks.

    Piety doesn't make you an expert. It makes you intellectually weak.

  • Stine Ekren
    Stine Ekren wrote:

    @马克,Confucism? u mean Confucianism? Since when it has became a religion? am ignorant, enlighten me plz.

    @HP, 

    Colossians 2:8, TLB. "Don't let others spoil your faith and joy with their philosophies, their wrong and shallow answers built on men's thoughts and ideas, instead of on what Christ has said."

    I can't believe u quoted again,and from a slave of Jesus Christ as ur kindly insult and self-righteousness to despise those who don't really believe in Jesus.He is  a prophet ,a human being too.people always quote from Bible to their own needs regardless of their limitless of stupidity who might be misinterpretate what the true Bible saids instead. u and 马克 r so off topic.We r talking about imagine there's no religion in this world ,what the world would  be like but I realized that am whistling jigs to a milestone...sigh~

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    Is anyone else nostalgic for the days of WLIB past, when the LZ could delete off-topic horseshit at whim?

  • Stine Ekren
    Stine Ekren wrote:

    Keith, Please don't ruin my thread with ur personal insults toward others if u don't have any opinion and views about topic! 

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    Hahahahaha ...

    Dando ... discussion? no ... general update? yes ...

    I would love to be able to delete those old "group buying" info ... and any bug report that has been fixed ... oh, what did I just say? bug report? fixed? Sorry ... I am in the wrong forum ... :)

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    (continued) ... Keith ... how is the weather down south?

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    I'm not sure what you're asking, DD.

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    (continued) ...

    I meant, for general and on-going discussion, I dont think the "delete" option is a good idea ... it just piss people off ... and we both had felt that before ...

    ... but for updates or info that can expire, the "delete" option is perhaps not a bad idea ...

  • Stine Ekren
    Stine Ekren wrote:

    Keith, let me kindly recommend u to open another thread  duel  Dando! 

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    I didn't honor John Constantine's request for a duel. What makes you think I'm going to waste my time on "Keith"?

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    No, you couldn't, and that's why you bring nothing except impotent insults. You couldn't even beat off if you were furnished with a gallon of KY and a stack of Penthouse. And that's why I won't dignify your responses with much more than a smarmy image macro, because I don't engage in battles of wits with the demonstrably unarmed.

    As for the classy Internet Tough Guy's implied challenge of a physical confrontation:

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    Street Fighter? Now you're talking my language. My PSN nick is EvDandoZ. Prepare your anus.

  • Stine Ekren
  • Stine Ekren
    Stine Ekren wrote:

    fuck, I really don't wanna shit in my own thread~but I doubt if Keith has been lack of oxygen in his brain...

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    @马克, Then what are you? Besides the obvious: an intellectual weakling, a coward, and a hypocrite--and all that is on display in this thread alone! You began by bullying Evanescence with a false argument from authority, claiming that one requires a religious education to condemn religion. When I show up with such qualifications and an even more strongly worded condemnation, you moved the goalposts: one must be religiously educated and not named Dando.

    Your observations are about as incisive as a kindergartener's safety scissors. The fact that you cannot respond to what I've said here and instead resort to pathetic and childish personal attacks just demonstrates that you have nothing intelligent to say. Maybe I'm a pathetic failure and a brutal troll, but by all objective measures, you're getting your ass handed to you with more courtesy than you deserve right now.

    And unless you can provide links to these so-called threads where I have "repeated [myself] differently," they don't exist anywhere except for the narrow space between your ears.

    Tell us more about the "people" who consider Confucianism a religion rather than a social philosophy? Are they real, or the product of a religious imagination?

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    Hahahahahaha ... Aino ... you are no more naive than I am ...

  • High Priest
    High Priest wrote:

    I didn’t want to comment on this of your thread Eva aka Gloria, I got different requests, and you personally wanted to hear my point of view on your question, which I did. I’m not the only one here who knows more about the bible, we’ve got people who have spent years in seminaries like the excommunicated reverend DZ, and we’ve got Godfather and others.

     

    I’d acknowledge publicly here that I’ve never been to any theological school like others who pretend to hold the credential but misleading those who want to know. I’ve been scrutinizing scriptures by my own and reading different doctrines to get the distilled truth of the word. I’m inspired in factJ I’m not talking out of nothing, I let the book interprets itself.

     

    Accusing me of attacking you personally on my comment is false and u misinterpreted me. I don’t see anyone one of u here who have come up with a new philosophy that I attacked. Both of you are behind the most influential atheists like (Marx, Jean Paul Sartre, Simone de Beauvoir, Marilyn Manson..) I’m referring to them. And most of you who claim to be atheist, many didn’t even have time to read and know more what their orthodoxies were all about.

     

    Let me tell u something folks, if you want to object on something, try to know it so well than to have a superficial view. Religion is not a Philosophy; it’s much more than that:

     

    The point I am trying to make here, and weak as it might be ... is that religion is just an "ideal", and like many other political or philosophical ones, that is there for people to "follow", because they think this can lead to a better and happier life ... physical, as well as spiritual

     

    Opinion like this shouldn’t be displayed if we have known well what we were talking about.

     

    Eva, I didn’t want to reply to this thread coz you shown a tendency of an anti religious, having said that, you didn’t intend to want an answer to your question as you have chosen a camp already. If you really want to know, you should remove your misconception about religion and learn, than embracing false preaching from unbelievers.

    • Mark, Hate Priest: It should be Hated Priest. I do love all my hater

    What’s that? Ha ha, I hate no one.

    One more last thing, anyone can become Ordained in Universal LifeChurch without too many processes like it is in other denominations where u have to be groomed and get the ideology of the church. Anyone willing to get ordained in the Universal Life Church can get my help. I'm gonna send you a form to fill in.

    High Priest

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    (continued) ... heehee ... Priest ... curiously ... why was my comment being pulled into your discussion with another person? Such "tactics" dont work well on me, havent you learnt anything?

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    ULC accepts anyone because everyone is a member whether they realize it or not. Thus it's impossible for me to be "excommunicated." Only Catholics do that. I haven't had my baptismal or confirmation certificates revoked yet, either. You're lying again.

    "I let the book interprets itself."

    It doesn't interpret itself even if you read Greek and Hebrew; to understand the Bible, you need to read a great deal of other historical documents including letters of early church fathers, banned apocrypha, and all sorts of other commentary. You haven't done any of this shit, so your constant appeals to the authority of your scriptural interpretation are entirely without merit.

    I have done quite a bit of this, on the other hand, and that's what makes your constant claims that your scriptural interpretations are superior to mine so breathtakingly ridiculous.

    I let the Bible interpret itself for me, too. If I leave it open on a windy day, Jesus whispers to me, "Desmond is the whore of Babylon," but only if I huff the vapors of industrial solvents with a paper bag first.

    "Religion is not a Philosophy; it’s much more less than that:"

    fix'd

  • Stine Ekren
    Stine Ekren wrote:

    @马克

    “people consider it as religion!”

    Are those "people" also including u? u concluded that statement grounds on what? the random sauces disseminated in the internet or simply by ur own narrow-minded assumption? Confucius was not a religious thinker like Buddha, Christ or Mohammed, but a social reformer as he never claimed that he is an originator but a transmitter.Do u actually have an idea what the true "religion" is? if Confucianism is a religion, we have to be worship Confucius as "Holy Spirit" ,a God, which in Chinese school is taboo  as spreading religions.We won't receive the "three character classic" and the "Analects"as our early formative education then.I have been to Christian church with my grandma secretly without telling anyone especially my classmates and teacher in my school time,coz I might  get punishment and humiliated publicly in school if I've got this revealed.

     

    @High Priest,

    U appeared as if by magic, hehe, I am not a true anti-religion and hater as Marilyne Monson and others,but what disgusted me is that people using their religion as a pretext to cover their creepy inside, I don't give a fuck who's true Christian here or not.but as u claimed that u r the "Hight Priest" here, and u made this statement as below.

    "Mark, Hate Priest: It should be Hated Priest. I do love all my hater"

    u know what is hilarious ? I remembered that whenever I've shown a little sign of defiance to "Holy Spirit", u snooped around my profile at least twice,and when I click ur profile I found that I've been blocked as if I will harass u or what. that's not enough to demonstrate u as a hypocrite to say u love all people?haha...never mind, I simply have fun here, nothing personal, I respected u as a pious Christian here on the other side.

    u won't believe one of my female friends is a Christian and she regularly go to church every week,and she told me that she will only choose her husband there or at least her Mr Right must be a Christian as she thinks every Chritian is good and kind and I didn't say anything to her except a big LOL... it's her choice, and I know it's hard to turn the turtle.

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    *swoons*

  • High Priest
    High Priest wrote:

    Gloria aka Eva, I’ve blocked a couple of people. I snooped on your profile as you are among those who are trying to demote me from here. Not for other reasons. You are one of those rebuilding the army to give me a boot on here isn’t it? U know how much I avoid personal attacks, and u have been trying to drag in that mess which am not comfortable with, but I understand… 

    Why does HP bother some people too much? On this forum, we’ve got Uncle, is he your uncle? We’ve got Godfather, he your GF? We got Commando and so on…

    If you don’t feel comfortable with HP, call me Dez please. 

    I don’t have problem withurperception on religion, we are free to opt our opinion. You insisted for me to give my point and I did and now you are accusing me from all sins of Israel. 

    Your friend made her own choice, we can’t judge her from what she believe as we don’t want to judge you as you don’t like religion, so we don’t need to Lol on her. 

    It makes me laugh sometime for those who have read Greek and Hebrew to a discovery that when a man and woman get married shall become one flesh means”Fuck” Lord have mercy upon my soul! My problem, whatever title u’ve got, don’t be lead flocks astray.  

    I’m not a pious and am not a righteous man as most of you claim. I’m full of imperfection as I’m a human being. But I won’t swallow  and won’t let other spread false gospel.

    High Priest

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    I'm terribly sorry that you feel persecuted when people call you out on your manifest bullshit and deception.

    Yet again:

    Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, 'The two will become one flesh.'

    1 Corinthians 6:16

    Unless this is sarcastic (in which case you'd certainly need to understand Greek to provide an adequate explanation), it says so quite explicitly that the phrase refers to a physical union (in contrast with 'to be one in spirit'). What the fuck else do you think they mean by 'unite' here? Is the man organizing sex workers into a labor union? It's an archaic expression for sexual intercourse. What about this is so difficult for you to understand?

    Looking forward to you dodging the question yet again.

    Some people might consider it arrogant to leave a signature at the end of forum posts which are already labeled with your name; I think it's a useful reminder when I am scrolling down the page and come across a long cloud of hollow aphorisms, question dodging, and blatantly deceptive misattributions. "What the fuck is this shit? Oh. Right. That guy."

  • Stine Ekren
    Stine Ekren wrote:

    @HP,

     "You insisted for me to give my point and I did and now you are accusing me from all sins of Israel. "

    r u keen on name-calling or something? since when I accused u for all sins of  Israel? quote me,plz...

    "I’m not a pious and am not a righteous man as most of you claim. I’m full of imperfection as I’m a human being. But I won’t swallow  and won’t let other spread false gospel."

     I am confused now, why there is always a bunch of controversies from u? I spread what?gospel? there is no gospel from me I guess.

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    (continued) ... *off topic* ... does anyone find odd that the Priest address himself as HP?

  • A豆腐
    A豆腐 wrote:

    No DD, in the catholic church is common proclaim oneself to be something, to feel niubi in front God´s eyes.   A zhuangbi act of ego 

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    Hahahahaha ... that's not the same Catholic Church that I used to know ...

  • A豆腐
    A豆腐 wrote:

    here is the old school, DD 

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    (continued) ... heehee ... thanks for reminding me ...

  • A豆腐
    A豆腐 wrote:
  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    (continued) ... OH, the Spanish Inquisition ... I tried to YouKu it, but I cannot find it ...

     

     

  • A豆腐
    A豆腐 wrote:

     

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ... (continued) ... probably because Lois was put onto the cross, and Superman was mistaken to hate Christianity?

    ...

    ... and accidentally came across a Megan Fox Supergirl image ... just have to post it here ...

  • A豆腐
    A豆腐 wrote:

    Megan Fox Supergirl !!! thumbs up or something !!!   :O  

     

    ---------------------------->


     

  • High Priest
    High Priest wrote:

    Ms Gloria, that quote wasn’t addressed to u.

     Stemming on that quote and concluding that it refers to fuck only seems to tell that u’ve got to go back and readurHebrew and Greek. Paul quote this verse to tell prostitution is wrong I Corinthian 6-15:20, Jesus quoted this verse to tell married couples that divorce is bad Matthew19-3-9and Mark 10-6-12, Malachi wanted to focus that marriage should a serious matter and not be destroyed. Paul again used the same verse to prove that husband and wife should treat each other with respect and love Ephesian 5:28-31.

    Dando, far more is hinted here than just sex, if your Sunday teacher taught you so please  get good a good teacher..

    of "one" on a spiritual plane means united in purpose and goals. "I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me" ( John 17:20-21). 

    Just as Christians become one with God, Jesus, and their fellow Christians, a husband and wife become one. It is no longer about what each individual wants, but what the family needs. It is the idea that it doesn't matter if you talk to the husband or the wife, you'll get basically the same answer. Stop spreading heretical doctrine. 

    Back to the topic, would the world be better place without religion?

  • A豆腐
    A豆腐 wrote:

    [.....] Stop spreading heretical doctrine. [....]

    talks about bitches, the most fucking bitch, huh?

  • Stine Ekren
  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    Of course Paul said prostitution is wrong. That doesn't change the clear usage of the phrase "become one flesh" in that passage to refer to anything other than a physical relationship:  sexual intercourse, also known as fucking. As this is explicitly self contained within a single verse, your sloppy references to other passages are irrelevant (not to mention that Jesus can't quote or be quoted in Corinthians since it was written long after he was crucified by someone who never met him).

    All other uses of the phrase refer to a physical relationship. I had this explained to me by a scholar who reads, writes, and speaks Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic. What've you got besides "the Bible interprets itself"?

    "Stop spreading heretical doctrine."

    Stop breathing.

    You whine about being persecuted and have on multiple occasions accused me of stifling your freedom of speech rights, but here you turn around and do the same thing, even though my historically contextualized interpretation is leaps and bounds more sophisticated than your "the Bible interprets itself" horseshit.

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    Nice try, but I know a fair amount about Islam, Judaism, and Eastern philosophy as well, enough to find plenty of parallels; I don't think any religion can be studied in a vacuum. Refer to my previous contents about looking for historical context; a religion cannot be studied without making comparisons to its contemporary alternatives.

    Furthermore, I personally identify as philosophically Buddhist. I simply reject all the dogmatic and supernatural religious aspects. I've got a healthy admiration for Taoism as well, but I don't consider that to be a religion so much as a proto-science.

    So take your best shot. If you're not Christian, then what are you?

    Even Buddhism is popularly considered peaceful, but anyone who thinks this has never had any experience with the jingoistic Thai state religion, in which the Buddha is depicted as a warrior and the Thai king is his earthly representative. This value system has resulted in restrictions on freedom of speech in Thailand (despite it being the only democracy in the region), such that any time someone speaks against the establishment, they are accused of lese majeste and summarily jailed, even if they didn't speak about the king directly.

    The essence of religion is not peace; you say so, but you have nothing to back up your claim except "Dando is a failure." And I should point out, that if you can't learn something from the dumbest person in the room, then YOU ARE the dumbest person in the room.

    The essence of religion is to needlessly divide people based on principles that have no basis in objective reality.

    Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

    Matthew 10:34

    I still haven't stooped to insulting you, Mark. It brings a smile to my face to know that I can take the high road and debate you more honorably than you deserve even though I'm a soulless atheist and a reputed troll.

  • Daniel
    Daniel wrote:

     I don't think any religion can be studied in a vacuum. Refer to my previous contents about looking for historical context; a religion cannot be studied without making comparisons to its contemporary alternatives.

    Compare with: 

    The essence of religion is to needlessly divide people based on principles that have no basis in objective reality.

    Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

    Matthew 10:34 

    A bit hypocritical, you think? 

     

    In reference to the original topic: I think the idea that the world would be a better place without religion is a fairly ignorant one. The development of the Sciences and Education in the Western world over the last 2000 years is largely down to the Church,  and whilst you can argue that advances might have been made with an organisation that wasn't religious, 'it might have happened anyway' isn't really a reasonable position to justify something's pointlessness. 

  • Daniel
    Daniel wrote:

    Also, that MtG Spanish Inquisition is old and underpowered....and definitely fits into Black or Blue way more than Red. 

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    Daniel,

    Explain what's hypocritical about those three closely related statements. You're not really linking any of your arguments together.

    I happen to enjoy studying religions, but I admit that it essentially divides people into artificial ideological categories. Unless you believe in supernatural horseshit like the Holy Spirit imbuing the faithful with tongues of fire so that they may speak to one another regardless of language, there really is no evidence of religion ever uniting anybody without necessarily excluding some other group.

    "The development of the Sciences and Education in the Western world over the last 2000 years is largely down to the Church"

    Maybe--And I'm just going out on a limb here--that's because the Church was virtually indistinguishable from the State during much of that time. This is like giving Reagan and Thatcher credit for defeating communism just because the USSR happened to fall on their watch.

    "'it might have happened anyway' isn't really a reasonable position to justify something's pointlessness. "

    "It would have happened far more quickly without the church's temporal dominance" is a perfectly reasonable position, particularly when you've left a chasm of causality in your baffling non-arguments.

    But that's okay, because it's the crack of dawn you're probably still a little drunk. Thanks for playing.

  • Daniel
    Daniel wrote:

    Dando, 

    Unfortunately I'm neither drunk or under the influence of any mind-altering substances, so  you'll have to work out the details on your own. If it helps, 'on your own' is a hint! 

    Also, you know that paraphrasing everything to fit into your own conception of the topic doesn't quite qualify as logic, right? Playing to the cheap-seats may win you the keyboard-stroking you seem to need, but it doesn't quite match up with what you're actually trying to talk about.

    "It would have happened far more quickly without the church's temporal dominance" is a perfectly reasonable position, particularly when you've left a chasm of causality in your baffling non-arguments.

    Again, I'm not intoxicated enough to spell out the argument in the way you seem to require, but surely the fact that you've already conceded the integration of the Church with the State throughout much of post-Roman history(it's simpler if we keep Roman and Greek religious practices out of it) pretty much acknowledges its importance. Surely the idea of removing something that is important enough to infiltrate the apparatus of government and then expecting things would somehow be magically better without it is unreasonable? On what basis do you assume that removing something that has spawned positive effects is going to produce more positive effects rather than simply producing the absence or delay of positive effects? 

    Even on a specific level if you go beyond the  fact that the church funded and encouraged most early scientific endeavour, most philosophical thought of this period is almost completely focused on theological enquiry, and the idea that religion is a chain that was holding thinkers like Kant, Aquinas, Pascal and Descartes back is frankly, ridiculous. 

  • Stine Ekren
    Stine Ekren wrote:

    Whoa! For all people who don’t feel comfortable with this thread title,I’d like to modify it as: “what would the world be like without religion?”

    I don’t care if u call me as ignorant,stupid,naive or whatever by starting this thread, what I only know is that I know nothing relative to the whole world , so am willing to learn from everyone no matter young or old.I think there’s nothing wrong with me to learn from all of u and also share my own ideas here ,right?

    I dislike people throwing their gratuitous insults to others due to their lack of rational reasons and ideas.If u don’t like this topic u can ignore it,no one forced u and dragged u to this topic to suffer or maybe u can wait several hours or days later continue to troll here to demonstrate u don’t live on here.

     

    @马克,

    “ For them confucianism is not as holy as jesus is, the teaching goes parallel with the buddhism.”

    I won’t deny the fact there are people there who take Confucius as religious idol as they respect him more than a philosopher and educator as he effected people more than 2500 years.but I think they took this more as a culture not a religion. As for those who go to the temple of Confusius burning incense and kneeling down to worship him is just a memorial activity or rite, rather,there are also people there who’re like utilitarianism that burning incense for blessings when they are in distress.If the core of other country’s culture is religion,then the core of Chinese cultrue should be philosophy not religion. This is Chinese philosophy in the status of Chinese culture.

    “and my source of information is not limited to internet, for me reality is different from wikipaedia! incase if you wana go throgh something to prove some sense to yourself, http://www.religioustolerance.org/confuciu.htm”

    Thanks for ur link. But I don’t think this link can prove some sense either,that more looks like a copyscape unless u can prove that authority to me.I don’t even wholly believe in media. I grow up in China,I know Chinese people, so I can feel my sense. Traveling some tourist sites only for several days won’t let u get to know the place nor the people well only if u stayed there for much longer .

     

    @Swag,

    “Freedom of religion is supposed to exist, but in reality, it does not because everyone has an opinion and they all think they are right. And, that is the problem with religion.”

    Well said. I don’t have to study every religion to make this conclusion either. I know they have conflict element and the ubiquitous righteousness to judge people like HP quoted from Colossians above which I don’t wanna quote again here.

    We are talking about no religion here, why would we quote from Bible to prove one’s sense ,right? Unless somebody tell me they don’t have a sense except follow their holy Bible.

     @Daniel,

    “and the idea that religion is a chain that was holding thinkers like Kant, Aquinas, Pascal and Descartes back is frankly, ridiculous”

    I take those religion more as a self-righteous philosophy that for reference to those later philosophers.

     

  • A豆腐
    A豆腐 wrote:

    @Daniel      I don't know the reason why the Monty Python choosed the red colour... but there is a famous portrait of -Carde­nal Niño de Guevara- by Greco, He was cardinal,Sevilla archbishop and general inquisitor... maybe, they took it from there



  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    Hahahahaha ... as much fun as this has been ...

    The topic is, respectfully, would the world be a better place without religion ...

    However, instead of talking about religion in general, most people are throwing punches in the Christianity ring, but did not look at "religion" as a whole ...

    Again ... religion, whether you are pro or anti or neutral or inherited (stuffed down the throat) etc, is just some form of guideline ... but it is NOT exactly a rule book ... e.g. some old generation Buddists that I know, they dont eat beef (I cannot remember the reason) ... but some of the younger ones do, while some are complete vegetarians ...

    ... so, religion is just one particular "path" to be a better and happier person ... but at the same time, there are non-religious doctrines in many cultures, which actually talk about the same thing ...

    There are people who dont care about religion, and there are people who claim to be religious but act otherwise, and there are also those who use religion as a "weapon" or excuse to do something that the particular religion might not otherwise have supported or agreed ...

    My own interpretation is ... the philosphy of each religion, or a combined philosophy of all religions, is about being good, which is what most human beings strived to do, except that some of them need religion as a "map", without which, they might be lost ...

    In a funny way ... religion is a GPS or street directory ... some people need it, some people dont, and there some who think it is actually not necessary ...

  • Stine Ekren
    Stine Ekren wrote:

     Godfather,

  • Daniel
    Daniel wrote:

    @Scott, 

    Two things you did wrong: 

    1) You somehow found 'God is real!' and 'I heart Jesus!' somewhere in my posts, which neither deals with what I've actually wrote (with real words!) or the meaning behind them. I'm not actually a theist, but it's always nice to painted as one by rabid atheists who find any reasonable argument on the topic of religion as indoctrinated drivel coming from the mouths of ignorant believers. 

    2) You paraphrase. This kind of thing pisses me off because you somehow expect that because something is true in 'Complicated Situation A',  it's going to be true in 'Complicated Situation B' because of some half-assed conceptual link. All you do when you say stuff like 'that's like saying...which obviously is wrong!' is undermine an already complicated subject with another complicated subject. 

     

     

    Returning to this topic: my point was not to discuss the merits of religion and Christianity, but simply to acknowledge the positive influence Christianity has had historically. In naming the philosophers I mentioned, I was trying to point out the significance that religion had in the development and expansion of their philosophical thought. The most famous philosophical catchphrase (I think, therefore I am...though arguably God is Dead competes with it) was coined in relation to the possiblity of a deity, and surely we can agree that removing this catalyst would be detrimental to this area of human history and thought?

  • Daniel
    Daniel wrote:

    And @Eva, 

    Whilst I can accept the dislike for 'throwing gratuitous insults', don't you think you maybe started that trend from the very beginning by labelling religion as 'the accepted insanity' ?

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    @Daniel, I contend that the great thinkers of European history are worthy of greater praise because of the setbacks their faith in imaginary friends might have caused them. Moreover, your idea that the social institution of religion is somehow irreplaceable is utterly ridiculous considering the part of the earth you're on right now. Or I think you're on right now. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here.

    And it's a good thing there's no one here named "religion" to take offense to Eva's insults.

    Just like @Trout is fortunate that developmentally handicapped people will never read his "retard" joke. Boy, I'm gonna have fun reminding you of that every time you play the PC card, even when I happen to occasionally agree. Like now.

    Religion is not due any more respect in a public discussion than any other ideology or institution. And if anyone considers religion to be such an important part of their personal identity that they must therefore take criticism of religion as a personal insult, I personally feel quite justified in telling such a person to go fuck themselves with the ritual object of their fixation.

    I don't foam at the mouth with righteous indignation when people blame Marx for the deaths of millions. And people put that kind of shit on t-shirts, for crying out loud!

  • High Priest
    High Priest wrote:

    "we human beings are so weak minded that have to use Religion stuff to pacify our minds and souls? what on earth Religion have given us except those blockbuster lies, Homophobe, Xenophobe, Sexism, Racism and War...?"

    From this statement, I saw someone who really didn't want to learn as she pretends, but who had a preconceived position on her question already.

    Then the question got adjusted, in spite of all the opinions shared by fellow Wlin members..

    I believe, the last adjustment can be found on the message to Godfather. which I understand from Eva "What would the world be without blacks?" This is where Eva has brought us.

    Whatever it is, I appeal to all of us to be tolerant, to remain in the discussion, abject to someone idea and don't punch insult. Insults and violence are weaponeries of the weak.

    Eleaonor Rooseveld once said: It is neither unusual nor new for me to have Negro friends, nor is it unusual for me to have found my friends among all races and religions of people. 

     High Priest

  • Stine Ekren
    Stine Ekren wrote:

    @ High Priest,

    “I believe, the last adjustment can be found on the message to Godfather. which I understand from Eva "What would the world be without blacks?" This is where Eva has brought us.”

     

    Dumbfounding…

    Seriously it makes me cry than smile when I found our pious High Priest struggled to excite a racist problem here by my half in jest GIF to GodFather that was suggested him do not quote from Bible again which was obviously out of conversation.Did u read my comment to Swag?

    I can’t believe I’ve already became the object of your slander.Is that your ability to reason? R U SERIOUS?

     

    “From this statement, I saw someone who really didn't want to learn as she pretends, but who had a preconceived position on her question already.”

     

    You are warping my comment again.But I don’t see any problem to state my starting point of this topic.Do you meant to say I shouldn’t have spoken out my idea frankly? It seemed that I offended you(Christian) by choosing my position and somehow indicated that religion is so sacrosanct that we can’t even talk about which already built an atmosphere made people retreat from this topic.But am I in the dangerous situation now,HP? Oh,no~ I haven’t lived long enough yet ! am done here,please don’t curse me,huh~I’ve already overdosed myself !

     

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    The question was not "What would the world be like without Christians?", the question was about an impersonal institution. Evanescence's comments about religion being a form of popular insanity were provocative, but you should note that it was 马克 who loosed the first personal insult.

    This is not surprising, as atheists are among the final minorities against whom prejudice is not only tolerated by polite society, but openly encouraged.

    You don't even capitalize the word 'atheist'! It's not even a proper noun.

    Religionists are masters of public relations and incredibly adept at presenting themselves as martyrs suffering in this world, but why pity them if they're doing so for heavenly rewards? If you're inclined to believe that every atheist is an aggressive lion and people like High Priest are gentle lambs, then perhaps you should check yourself.

    After all, how many U.S. presidents were atheists?

    Actually, who the fuck is the U.S. president now? Oh yeah! A black Christian! On a crusade in Libya, no less! Hey, as long as you're going to muddy the waters by dragging race into the debate, how about we obscure the whole question with shitty soy-paste by dragging U.S. foreign policy into it?

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    。。。

    Hahahahaha ... I am not qualified to discuss this ... so, just for the purpose of entertainment ...

    I was watching the animation "Rango" (Johnny Depp), and the "Mayor" of Frontier Town said this following to our hero before handing over the typical star badge and made him sheriff ...

    It's a hard life here, very hard! You know how they make it through each and every day? They BELIEVE!

    They believe it's going to be better, they believe that the water will come! They believe against all odds and all evidence that tomorrow will be better than today!

    People have to believe in something, right now, they believe in you!

    Isnt that what religion is supposed to do?

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    @Scott, Deists were the atheists of their day, but don't you think that Jeffstunnerz and G-Wash had to suck even a little bit of Yahweh dick to learn the secrets of the Shaolin Masonic temple?

  • Simon Frederic

    > like the dodo birds - religion and dogma are doomed to slowly disappear.

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    Yeah well my paternal grandfather is a Mason to the nth degree. He could use his mind tools to carve blocks of quasi-matter out of raw ether with devastatingly dastardly demiurgy. That shit is real, son. It's not a conspiracy theory. It's a conspiracy law. 

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