• The War
    The War wrote:

    If Chinese person will ask me something serious, not only the same stupid questions like "where are you from" and etc, but smth like "What do you respect in China?", I will choose then strong anti-drug laws. All my life i really despise all kind of narcos, and I am happy with the fact that China has less of them.

    But how did Chinese reach this? There is a very sad episode in Chinese history, named as "Opium wars", you can find more detailed information here:

    http://www.victorianweb.org/history/empire/opiumwars/opiumwars1.html

    Usually, we hear that communists were the total bustards, while West is supreme. But only communists saved this country from drug slavery. And right after the American invasion to Afganistan, the heroin production was increased in 40 times.

    Nota Bene. For all topic readers, i speak only about heavy stuff like heroin, cocain, crack and etc. Nightlife stalkers, please continue to enjoy your life, i dont pretend for your weed or LCD tablets.

    What do you think about all this?

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    *confused* ... communists saved this country from drug slavery?

    John ... which history book are you reading?

  • Mari Vidste
    Mari Vidste wrote:

    I think anyone who says 'all my life I really despise all kind of narcos" has the mind of a child and the personality of a zygote.

    I think if the American government had explicitly stated that their purpose in going into Afghanistan was to protect and bolster heroin production there, I would have paid extra taxes.

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    Hahahahahaha ... John ... you have lost me right from the beginning ... and by the way, I did not take Chinese History class in Australia, I took them when I was in Hong Kong, for about 4-5 years?

    Here's the version that I know ...

    Although the Opium war (and the side-effect of it) went through a major part of the Qing dynasty, the dynasty was ended around the beginning of the last century (I think it was 1911?) ... I am not denying that there were Communist in China then, but it would seem that they did not come to "form" until prior WW2, and they definitely did not gain power until 60+ years ago ...

    So ... there is a gap of AT LEAST 20-30 years between the Opium War and Communist ... or unless, you were talking about something else entirely unrelated?

    ... and if you were NOT, whatever drugs you might be taking ... stop it ...

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    Hahahahahaha ...

    John Constantine wrote:

    China lost in opium wars, people continued to use drugs, but when communists took the leadership, they began the hard war against drugs. Agressive propaganda and death penalties made it best to stop this insanity.

    ... apparently, not hard enough if it is still here today ...

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    Hahahahahaha ... OK then, maybe if you can show me where did you read that "They began the hard war against drugs"?

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    Hahahahaha ... read it ... thanks ... my bad ... cant wait to see the next revolution ...

  • Da Fan
    Da Fan wrote:

    Well, yeah, you can hardly get any heavy stuff within China's border, and even for light things like weed, compared with that in the US that you can grab some from across a room, it's still a little bit harder in China. (personally I'm not against marijuanna, since it's level of dependency and physical harm are not as high as tobacco)

    As for drug related laws in China, umm, the fact is you will never receive a bullet if you are just a drug user, but dealers are punished in the most "mind-blowing" way as you know -- I'm OK with this -- I don't want to say too much about if my opinion is "right" or "wrong", I'd rather take it as my personal attitude: dealing heavy drugs like heroin, cocaine, or methal amphitamine, no, it's not part of freedom, coz you are harming others.

    If anyone want to expand the discussion, there is a topic that exist for quite a long time in world legislation field, the three dark clouds in legislation: drug, gambling, and prostitution. You can argue that since they are not against involvers' own wills, why should we ban them. Too many opinions are already there, which I don't want to list here, but anyway, we all know that they are not legal in many countries around the world -- WHY?

    We can talk about any details here, but I just want to say sth general: freedom is always good, but it has it's boundary, and practically, it's boundary and ways of implementation depend on history, culture, economical development level, educational level, and many other factors. I believe that some univeral truths do exist, but you can hardly precisely name too many.

    I don't exactly know what's the law in the US. If heavy drug dealing is legal in the US, fine, let's see what's gonna happen~

     

    BTW, communist saved China from slavery...umm, the Opium War has nothing to do with the communists, it's too many years before the found of the CCP. But I don't mean to against this, coz I know a fact that before 1949, drug still prevailed in China, but after 1949, it's phucking gone (of coz, I believe the way of achieving so was harsh...)

  • 王经纬
    王经纬 wrote:

    Nah, Uncle 杂工 is an Aussie

  • Da Fan
    Da Fan wrote:

    no thanks, I just want to be a little bit sincere. It's a good topic, I don't want to see it be ruined by bunch of stupid trolls again~

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:
  • Simen Wangberg

    Reminds me of when I first got my PSP, and my mom was talking on the phone to my aunt, and felt like telling her that I was "playing with his PCP".

    :-/

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    Methamphetamine is very easy to produce and is widely available. Ketamine is also rather popular. Alcohol is at least as damaging to health and far more damaging to society than any hard drug.

    Drug addiction is a problem in China, but with so many other more important social problems and a corrupt, ineffective police force, drug abuse in China has a certain degree of sociological invisibility.

    Unfortunately, every government in the world has followed in the footsteps of the United States and treats drug addiction as a crime rather than a disease. Cops ain't as smart or as compassionate as doctors, and locking drug addicts in jail with worse criminals turns them into what? Worse criminals. What, did you think they'd have many law-abiding friends in civil society when they get out of prison? Nobody wants to associate with ex-convicts and they certainly face difficulties finding employment, meaning that their transition to career criminals is a wholly rational choice.

    Drug use itself is fairly rational, too. It feels good. We think of drug addicts as insane monsters, but there is really little difference between the heroin addict, the cokehead, and the alcoholic.

    America's drug problems are not due to decadence or moral shortcomings of Americans, but because of a justice system that is beyond the people's control. . Lawyers, judges, cops, and jail wardens would lose their jobs and prestige if drug users suddenly became wards of social workers and healthcare professionals.

    This is called the prison-industrial complex, and it is not too different from how the military-industrial complex has turned America into a mercenary state.

    Because of the unbelievable social, economic, and corporeal influence of these institutions, It may be too late for America, but modern China is young enough that it can learn from America's errors and avoid this vicious cycle of waste.

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    My solution? Total legalization. Tax and regulate drugs so users no longer have to buy from unscrupulous dealers who "cut" or adultrate their drugs with other substances to stretch their supplies. 

    Drugs themselves are very inexpensive to manufacture and require modest expertise in chemistry. In just a few short years, organized crime syndicates will no longer control the market and prices will plummet. Theft and other crimes attributed to drug addiction would disappear overnight.

    The government can impose modest taxes on drug sales, but not so high to compel people to resort to DIY methods. Strictly forbid sales of recreational drugs to minors. This kind of policy would be perfect for China, since Chinese people work the hardest during their teenage years.

    As I said, it's probably too late for America to do this because its legal institutions are hyper-rationalized and parasitic. However, this could be a potent solution to some of China's other political problems. You remember the unrest in America during the 1960s? Y'know why that virtually ended in the 70s?

    People were too fucking high to riot.

  • Da Fan
    Da Fan wrote:

    I'm not against the legalization of drugs, actually I think it quite makes sense. However, make sure that those red dots are not included...

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    @Da Fan, I've seen that infographic before. It's not very sociologically accurate. There's no objective way of measuring the physical harm potential of a drug, because of variations in purity, administration, and (most importantly) dosage. Granted we are talking about medicine and it is based on hard science, but there are very influential social factors at work in drug addiction.

    Heroin is up there for harm potential because it is traditionally administered intraveneously. This has two effects: for one thing, drug addicts will tend to share needles with one another to save money, spreading diseases. Secondly, it is much easier to overdose when injecting the drug.

    Free needle clinics eliminate the first problem. Taking it orally drastically reduces the likelihood of an overdose.

    I know it seems rather cavalier for me to say "HERP DERP LEGALIZE EVERYTHING", but the chemical differences between drugs are at times very arbitrary. Crack and cocaine, for instance, are popularly thought of as vastly different drugs used by people of different socioeconomic classes, but the molecular chemistry is identical; crack is just the base form of cocaine salt.

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    Also, according to the chart GHB is considered less addictive and less harmful than cannabis. Y'know what GHB is? The date rape drug. In terms of social harm, that's waaay worse than bong-hits.

  • Rebecca Arnesen

    ding dando, ding. it just makes sense.

    If you're able to be reasonably sensible with drug use, A-fucking-ok. harms only you, then pretty stupid but hey its your life buddy. if you're fucking other people shit up, it's a crime.

    Speaking of fucking shit up - http://www.marininstitute.org/alcohol_policy/violence.htm

    that said boozing is fun too.

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    Exactly. And fucking other people's shit up is itself a crime. Weak-minded people might blame their mistakes on whatever drugs they were on during the criminal act, but they just say such things in an attempt to get a lighter punishment.

    Alcohol is the only drug which possesses physiological effects that cause violent crime (PCP is one potential exception, but there isn't enough evidence to support a firm conclusion).

    Granted, China is probably not the right place to proselytize about drug legalization considering its history with opium addiction, but it should be noted that drug use is lower in China not because people fear punishment, but because most of them are too poor to afford drugs in the first place. That is rapidly changing as China develops, as now it's becoming a marked problem in urban areas. The Chinese government would do well to learn from the tragic mistakes of America's Prohibition policies during the early 20th century and the ongoing War on Drugs.

  • High Priest
    High Priest wrote:

    It's sad that the American fellows have caused tragedy in Mexico and many other countries because of excessive consumptions of drugs....I feel bad to see how people are being killed and used because of drug.

    I'd say, opium is evil. There's nothing better this stuff can do to human being. I like chinese stance on the matter and let's hope other countries can learn from them.

    High Priest

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    "I'd say, opium is evil. There's nothing better this stuff can do to human being."

    *facepalm*

    As Scott said upstairs:

    "The factor that everyone seems to miss in the opium issue is that in the 19th century, it was a cutting-edge, groundbreaking MEDICINE - that happened to be addictive. Before that, no one had such an effective pain-killer. Modern morphine is basically our version"

    You'd better hope you never have to undergo a surgical operation, HP. That would be rather difficult without codeine, morphine, oxycodone, or other opiates. Non-opioid painkillers aren't good for anything but headaches.

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    More uses for "evil" drugs:

    Sigmund Freud used and prescribed cocaine. It was an ingredient in the original recipe for Coca Cola.

    Amphetamines are used to treat Attention Deficit Disorder. Another type of amphetamine, MDMA, or ecstacy, had some success in treating Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder.

    Cannabis inhibits vomiting and stimulates appetite, making it useful for cancer patients whose chemotherapy drugs cause nausea and loss of appetite.

    Drugs are dangerous. People need to be educated about harm reduction and responsible uses of medication. No matter how strict your drug laws are, people are going to use drugs for recreational purposes. Kids are going to fuck before marriage, so teach them how to use condoms.

    Let's be serious about this issue and stop arbitrarily labelling them as evil and criminal.

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    My best friend in university would never even try smoking weed, unless he was really drunk, which is stupid because that can make you nauseous. One time during a house party, he stumbled into the "green" room and demanded a bong toke. An inexperienced smoker, he inhaled so much that he immediately became nauseous and left a trail of vomit on the while as he ran to the bathroom.

    It's called the spins, because it feels like the earth is spinning so fast that you might be flung into orbit.

    Rule #1 of recreational drug use: don't mix drugs unless you have really done your homework. Alcohol is especially dangerous to mix with other drugs. A friend of mine died from mixing alcohol and prescription opiates. He passed out and choked on his own vomit.

    For the record, I don't think people should do drugs, just like I don't think teenagers should be having sex. But... shit happens. That's why we have sex education. That's why we should teach harm reduction education.

  • Saint - Spartacus

    now the fashion is no smoking movement , and same in next 20 years , u know ... ...

    there are enough too much problem with sex stuff, then it's became joke, tragic thing ... ...

    then when people can understand and come to play their consciousness... ...

    but still believe a better futur happens in time

  • High Priest
    High Priest wrote:

    Dando, you are a pro in this matter. As a neophyte in this area, am enjoying your lecture.

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    Thanks HP, although I fear most folks wouldn't consider it an area worthy of expertise. I'd hope to become an advocate for drug policy reform if I ever return to the US. Half of my university degree is in social and criminal justice.

    Of all the facets of civil rights that ignite my passions, this is one of the few that affect me and mine directly, as among my friends and family back home, there are both responsible recreational drug users as well as damaged addicts who could receive treatment if only not for the criminal and social consequences.

  • High Priest
    High Priest wrote:

    But Dando, as using drug makes someone get addicted,more often it starts from small quanity to full addiction, i it advicable to liberlize drug? I see and feel bad to see how drug makes people's life miserable. Each friend of mine using drug isn't  happy about it,but don't know how to quit

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    Did the criminality of drug use prevent your friends from starting their habits? No. Is the criminality of drug use preventing them from seeking professional help? That's what it sounds like to me. Rehabilitation is expensive and embarrassing. There's nothing about what you just said that supports the idea that strict drug policies prevent drug use, so why do you think liberalization will encourage it?

  • Martin Svean
    Martin Svean wrote:

    no addicts in china in pre deng xiao ping reformat years?

    I highly doubt this, because no matter who you are, what power you have, nobody will stop a real addict from using.

    a nation filled with people smoking opium, which is highly addictive, could not be cleaned through political powers, their supply could be removed but its like the old story

     

    What do you get when you have a drunk who is a horse thief and you take away his alcohol....A horse thief.

     

    addiction is something that nobody has the power to stop. only the addict him/herself.

     

    and for anyone who thinks its not a problem in china should spend a couple of hours volunteering down at the needle exchange or methodone clinics which are quite a few in beijing.

     

    LCD is a freaking TV

     

    for those who maybe didn't know.

    a piece of info

     

    Bruce Lee's father was a heavy opium smoker too.

  • Martin Svean
    Martin Svean wrote:

    HP

    The drug does not make the person an addict. its a physical, mental and spiritual disease that effects their entire being.

     

    Alcohol is the worst drug out there. its not considered a drug because its legal.

     

    People are addicted to work, sex, food, cleaning, washing hands, internet and WLIB,

     

    you don't need to use drugs to be an addict.

     

    a very common misundertanding.

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    The LCD gaffe was the least of your mistakes, John. I don't think anybody really cared that you couldn't spell the acronym for a drug that has scarcely been manufactured or consumed since the mid-90s.

    "I noticed, that many users pretend to show their high education level, but they still suffer in basic knowledges."

    Shorter: "Many users act intelligent, but are actually ignorant." Could you be any more passive-aggressive? If you're going to blatantly insult people, you could at least do it directly without hiding behind weasel words like "many users" or "some people". For all your braggadocio about your ability to defeat old men in kung fu contests, your ways of tossing about insults is certainly underhanded and cowardly.

    I only noticed many users correcting you for your lack of basic knowledge of this subject, which inspired you to say silly shit like, "only communists saved this country from drug slavery" with "Agressive [sic] propaganda and death penalties."

    Citation needed. Citation very fucking needed.

    Drug trafficking in China was thwarted only by China closing off its borders, even with its neighbors in Southeast Asia's Golden Triangle, which are (surprise!) Communist countries.

    For your perusal, here are two dense Wikipedia articles about drug trafficking in China and the Opium Wars.

    You will find that not only is drug abuse becoming a serious problem in China, completely regardless of its strict policies, but also that the Opium Wars had nothing to do with the health problem of addiction (the Qing government even considered legalizing and taxing opium) and everything to do with trade imbalances and that it was its culmination in the Unequal Treaties that shamed China, not the scourge of opium dependence.

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    "Tantrums and insults are the most predictable of all John Constantine's responses. But, rest assured, this will be the sixth time we have mocked him, and we have become exceedingly efficient at it."

     

    "I know kung fu."

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    "I appreciate your knowledge of the problem, but seems you read to much american style history propaganda books."

    You read so quickly! Or you don't, or you would have noticed that my links are from Wikipedia, of which you also seem fond.

    Every one of my posts upstairs demonstrates incisive criticism of American drug policy and advises the Chinese to learn from American errors.

    I appreciate your utter lack of knowledge of the problem. It's a perfect way for me to get in my 2 fen about the failed American War on Drugs without starting my own thread.

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    0/10

    I taught my last ESL class three months ago. In two days, I'm starting work as a copy editor for a major weekly magazine. Your insults could have some sting if they weren't all copied from my own self-deprecating jokes or open discussions of my hobbies.

    By all means, continue to bump your hijacked thread with impotent attempts at insults. I'm rather proud of that Matrix reference a few posts up and it'd be a shame if no one else saw it.

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    Amidst the ubiquitous neon lights and red lanterns lining Chinese streets, I think the only way they could be made dark is by your radiant dimness.

    I hold a degree in social and criminal justice from an American state university, and have spent the better part of a decade sacrificing my own reputation to promote drug policy reform in the interests of public health and freeing up law enforcement resources to pursue real crimes. As mentioned upstairs, I have lost friends and family to drug abuse, and through years of study I have concluded that the problem is not the drugs themselves, but the policies that made them illegal in the first place, because their illegality makes it more difficult for people to seek help through addiction therapy.

    You go to parks and beat up old Chinese guys and brag about it on the Internet.

    I have forgotten more about this topic than you will ever learn.

    Sorry. My calendar is pretty empty, but I'd still rather spend my time playing videogames and watching Japanese monster porn rather than parley with such an insignificant creature as you.

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    I've had enough. If anyone has any burning questions about drugs, drug culture, or how America's War on Drugs is actually making the world a more dangerous place, then I will answer them.

    I'm done bickering with intellectual lightweights, though.

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    That's not a question. Next.

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    You're off-topic, but at least you phrased it as a question. Good boy. But let the next one be relevant.

    "What can such clowns as you do, instead of playing PS3 games and masturbation?"

    I can infuriate the likes of you with nothing more than twitchy fingers and meager wit.

    Next.

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    Strong people don't direct their pathetic attempts at insults at "many users" rather than directly confronting a person's arguments. Perhaps I am a physical coward simply because I have no interest in a face-to-face meeting with the biggest joke on WLIB, but at least I am not a spiritual coward who not only lacks the courage of his convictions, but lacks the critical thinking skills and incisiveness to have convictions in the first place.

    I've sacrificed a lot of time and much of my reputation to educate an unsympathetic audience on a topic that is quite unharmonious, risking ostracism and possibly even legal problems. There is more courage in the bin of semen-soaked toilet paper under my computer desk than you possess in your entire being.

    I may be of slight stature and delicate constitution, but I would much prefer to be a humble keyboard warrior than an arrogant meathead who thinks his physical prowess means anything on the Internet. You're completely out of your element, but we like having you here because your clumsy attempts at self-aggrandizement  make the rest of us look like enlightened boddhisatvas.

    My turn: How does it feel to be so shamelessly off-topic in your own thread?

  • High Priest
    High Priest wrote:

    Dando and John! I beg you for peace. We are much interested in knowing how dug industry works and it consequences than these insults. If u remove the insults in ur posts, it's gonna be fine.

    Peace

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    I'll let John have the last word with the insults. I'm sure the irony of being labelled a coward for defending as difficult a premise as drug policy reform in China is not lost on anyone else who might be reading this.

    I'm still here to answer any questions people may have about drug policy reform in the US.

  • Martin Svean
    Martin Svean wrote:

    @john

    you can see Dando's true nature? From a few dozen posts on a website?

    wow dude thats fucking great. what a gift.

    I wish i could do that.

     

    personally speaking, you probably don't know jack shit about dando at all.

    the fact that you said that lets me know that an arguement about this topic is just a place to put our confusion or discontent.

    as his personal friend, I think its safe to say that you cannot see his real nature.

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