Discussion » Nonsense » Abortion

  • High Priest
    High Priest wrote:

    Some say, the moral outrage of having a child before marriage  in Chinese society is much stronger than the shame associated with abortion__

    in 2007 7.6 million, 2008 9.8 million, Gorvenment source

    How to eradicate this situation?

     

    High Priest

  • Ejdnzlaj
    Ejdnzlaj wrote:

    A different question: does the situation need to be erradicated?

    Is it not worse to bring up a child in an enviroment where they wont be brought up to the best possible standard (because they are unwanted; the parent[s] aren't ready yet; etc)?

  • Minger
    Minger wrote:

    Abortions are unhealthy. Not nearly as unhealthy as child birth, but they should still be avoided if possible.

    I think the problem would be solved if parents told their daughters that they need to use condoms, instead of pretending that sex doesn't exist.

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    Hahahaha ... is this number ONLY for pre-marrital abortions?

    If it is, then sex education might perhaps be one of the issues, which is about "planning"!

    Typically (or traditionally), "kids" are seen as kids, and they are "supposed" to be all pure and innocent, so it is (or was) "believed" that they dont need sex education until they become adult ... sadly, that only fits the old Chinese society that was years, decades or even centuries ago, but even then, I remember hearing an old Chinese phrase "crossing the river at 30 years old with grandkids", or 三十岁拖孙过桥, it would seem that people in those days must have been married (i.e. learnt about sex) in their teens ...

    So it looks like, with the delayed legal "marriages age" of modern society, it was believed that education is not necessary until later, however, maturity (or just the curiosity) remains, and with the possibility of "early sexual maturity" (apparently one of the latest terms in China, which means that some kids are sexually mature, physically and/or mentally, at early age) plus the easily-found news and information about sex, there is a missing link between knowledge and real life, which brought teenagers to want to try things ...

    On the other hand, if this number included married couples (but it seems small), then, as 琪琪 mentioned, the gender bias could be one issue, and so is the "one child policy" in China, which actually fines "unqualified" married couples if they have second child ...

    Kieran ... that was actually our own reason not to have kids, but after hearing that, most people often said to me, "have the child first, then it will be OK" ...

     

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    Abortions are unhealthy but they are also delicious and it is none of yours or the government's business what goes on inside my body.

  • Da Fan
    Da Fan wrote:

    how to eradicate this situation? this situation cannot to be eradicated, and need not to be eradicated. What we should do is not to tell those young ppl not to have sex, or persuade pregnant girls to have the babies. Instead, tell them to wear a fucking CONDOM!

  • Simen Stensvoll

    i think to encourage homosexual is the best way to eradicate this situation

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    Hahahaha ... 琪琪:"Your parents must be happy to have you" ... you meant "me"? I dont really know, because I did not have enough time to know my father when he was alive, and my mother does not believe in praising her kids :)

     

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    Indeed, Minimy. The medical community has overlooked other forms of birth control, such as sodomy. Such a shame. It's the only method that has a lower rate of failure than condoms.

    in b4 Aiken preaching about the rhythm method.

  • Ms. Stephanie
    Ms. Stephanie wrote:

    DD.. sorry to hear that.. 

  • Minger
    Minger wrote:

    中华人民避孕套万岁!

  • Da Fan
    Da Fan wrote:

    说到condom,最近试了试Trojan的ultra thin啊,thintensity啊,ecstasy啊之类的东西,感觉区别不大啊...话说这玩意儿我只能感觉出来薄厚和是否有润滑,真不知道那些厂商搞那么多花样到底是要干什么...

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    Hahahaha ... Dando ... stop promoting anal sex, we should be promoting the natural path :)

    Stephanie ... thanks, but then, I always think that, if not for what had (and had not) happened, I would not be the same person I am today ... how was the "drama" last night? Did you enjoy it? We missed you at the dinner :)

    莫明 ... hahaha ...

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    Natural path, Hershey highway. What difference does it make? All roads lead to Rome.

  • Ms. Stephanie
    Ms. Stephanie wrote:

    Dando, dont be a hater... just let it go... 

    DD, I would love to watch you and Dando's "happen ending" last night... I was bored and eating at Cindy's cafe... I though the modern drama is about last night, but I finally found out is about next week.. shit... my bad!!! I miss you guys too ...  

     

     

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    Hahahaha ... Stephanie ... "happen ending"? Not sure if I want to know what it means ...

    Which Cindy's were you at? My guess is that you were not too far away? We started around 6:30 and left at 9:00, so you could have made it to have dinner together :)

  • Minger
    Minger wrote:

    Dando, main problem with the hershey highway (more than the rectal bleeding and shit on your stick) is that people (or Aiken) think they can go down it without a condom-car. I presume this is why most of the AIDS is with the sodomites.

  • Ms. Stephanie
    Ms. Stephanie wrote:

    I just heard you took your wife with you last night... I would love to see your wife too..

    Let's fine some other time then... It would just harmonious to watch you and Dando finally meet.. so I call it Happy ending.. lol

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    No shit, Ming. Butt since it requires more forethought and preparation (eating salad, shower, lube, etc.), only complete morons would still do bareback anal unless they're specifically looking for it, as opposed to regular convenient making babies sex, where forgetting a condom is less of a deal-breaker.

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    Hahahaha ... you only just heard? Somehow I always thought that you are better informed than that? Anyway, Beijing is only that big, right? Maybe we will run into each other soon ...

    I will try to arrange something later this month, perhaps before Dando leaves town ...

  • Ms. Stephanie
    Ms. Stephanie wrote:

    what else can I say really.. Let's find sometime to get together then... we should give Dando an unforgettable evening... :D

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    Hahahaha ... now you have got me worried ...

  • Minger
    Minger wrote:

    Dando, I butt-love the puns.

    Complete morons you say? Need I finish the thought? That's the majority of the population.

    I think that since going back-door protects against the most serious of STDs (pregnancy), those complete morons would be very likely to ignore the risks of the anus and dive right in. Either AIDS is God's cure for homosexuality, or disease-spread data supports my hypothesis.

    Just remember kids, while pregnancy may be the scariest of the STDs, it's curable!

  • Francesca
    Francesca wrote:

    it is a serious problem in China,when i worked in Obgyn department,i had "do" some abortions for patients,most of them are younger than i or even some of them are master degree.I cant agree that is a wise choice as being "realistic" concept told that cant raise up the kid,because if you choose becareful at first,why would the realistic thinking runnin into your brain.

    many chinese ppl have no concepts of condoms,it not only could prevent pregnancy,the most important thing is decreasing the STD and some gyneacology disease and infections.

    Sexual education is not a shameful work!!

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    Hahahaha ... 琪琪 ... I am afraid I will have to disagree on that one ...

    Once, we were having lunch at Long De in Li Shui Qiao, and we were sitting by the window, which had some beads hanging down the side, and a boy (maybe 3 or 4) came over and started "sliding" between our table and the window, playing with the beads, your typical annoying brat, and when his mother came to take him back to the table, instead of saying anything harsh, she was praising him ...

    With the 4-2-1 family structure, most kids are well protected, and praising is far more common than not ...

  • Francesca
    Francesca wrote:

    Once abortion costs 450RMB(in clinic)and another one costs 1000RMB(in surgery treatments)....think about it,how many boxes condoms with those abortion fee???

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    (continued) ... as for the gender bias, I am sorry to know that they have said that to you ... in my mother's family, though boys were much more "precious" than the girls, but it was the girls (two of them, my mother's sisters) who had become successful in their career ... so, set up a goal and become successful in whatever you want to do, so to prove your parents wrong :)

  • Francesca
    Francesca wrote:

    because you never saw what a woman suffering during the abortion just infront of your naked eyes,if under 7 weeks maybe you dont feel anything.if the baby larger than 7 weeks,you wont think that anymore.

    cuz abortion gonna caused many complients,uterus periformation...it is the most serious complient.some of abortion cant "clean" it up well in once,it gonna cause women extreme pain of their abdomen and increasing the rate couldnt get pregnant.....the most common after abortion is ectopic pregnancy(you can google it,it is extreme dagerous,gonna cause a woman die immediately).be nice to your gf or wife....dont let her to face it.in chinese hospital,men couldnt stay with theri wifes beside them,it is different from other countries.

  • Peter S 李贝勒

    Sex education can definitly be a part of the solution! Then, for sure i m agree! that s better to bring a child in what we could call a "classical environment", with a mother and a father. But, do we have to kill someone, because he won t be in this environment? It s really hard to answer, it s case by case, nobody is in the same situation. But, in all the situations, please, just have a heart! Instead of bannish differences, try to help them, to give and to be generous. Beatles said all u need is love, and love is all u need...

    then i can share with u my experience. I stayed 10 years with my 1st real GF, from 20 years old to 30. She had a child at 18, accident, it happens. I didn t think that she was a bitch or whatever, she has a high level education, she s doctor, and at this moment i loved her. it was only the point, so i took her and the children who was not mine, but i did my best to give him education and happiness. This child now is 18 years old, he seems to be well, no school problem, he has a social life, friends, and seem to be happy. The mother have an another BF who seems to be a good father for the kid.

    oh and for sure, i never married her, a lot of people of my generation think that wedding is an old "has been" tradition, the important thing is "love".

    different cultures, different way of seeing the things.

    i can add, that when i talk with my mama about these things, she said that in the 50's if u were mother without having a husband, everybody said bad words about u! things changed a lot around the 60's, and thanks god, we re more able to accept the differences, hope it will happens in china. Just let the people live as they want and don t judge them. There s no perfect model, but many models.

    what do u think?

  • Minger
    Minger wrote:

    Except in France and USA, I think most people get married or have abortions when they get pregnant. Maybe I'm wrong.

    Personally I support mandatory post-natal abortion in most cases. Also, castration for any man who is responsible for more than one unintended pregnancy due to ont using a condom.

  • High Priest
    High Priest wrote:

    莫明 u mean castration! U can't tell us that often times u use it while having quality time with ur missus, this is a fact, sometime, people just skip to wear it and the girl gets pregnant. R u gonna volunteer to be castrated in that case?

    As for sex education, Is it for promoting sex to unmarried people or preventing it?

    I often times attended seminars while I was teen and adult in church, and school, all the key speaker were preaching to young people to avoid sex and work out if they are friends to marry and then enjoy sex.

    I guess this is a better way to help this abortion trend. It's a hard way that can be really effective. Preaching only using condom is 89% condoning sex, and giving a go to young people.

    The problem with our current society is that we can't  say white is white and black. Premarital sex in any case has caused damage to people. We are a sacrificed generation, we live in the world of AIDS, too much STDs, and we see many people beeing affected, if there is a way to educate, we should do it in a better way. SOme can catch the gospel and would be saved:)

     

    High Priest

  • Daniel Westerberg

    I like to dedicate this little song to the thread.

    DAD:
    There are Jews in the world.
    There are Buddhists.
    There are Hindus and Mormons, and then
    There are those that follow Mohammed, but
    I've never been one of them.

    I'm a Roman Catholic,
    And have been since before I was born,
    And the one thing they say about Catholics is:
    They'll take you as soon as you're warm.

    You don't have to be a six-footer.
    You don't have to have a great brain.
    You don't have to have any clothes on. You're
    A Catholic the moment Dad came,

    Because

    Every sperm is sacred.
    Every sperm is great.
    If a sperm is wasted,
    God gets quite irate.

    CHILDREN:
    Every sperm is sacred.
    Every sperm is great.
    If a sperm is wasted,
    God gets quite irate.

    GIRL:
    Let the heathen spill theirs
    On the dusty ground.
    God shall make them pay for
    Each sperm that can't be found.

    CHILDREN:
    Every sperm is wanted.
    Every sperm is good.
    Every sperm is needed
    In your neighbourhood.

    MUM:
    Hindu, Taoist, Mormon,
    Spill theirs just anywhere,
    But God loves those who treat their
    Semen with more care.

    MEN:
    Every sperm is sacred.
    Every sperm is great.
    WOMEN:
    If a sperm is wasted,...
    CHILDREN:
    ...God get quite irate.

    PRIEST:
    Every sperm is sacred.
    BRIDE and GROOM:
    Every sperm is good.
    NANNIES:
    Every sperm is needed...
    CARDINALS:
    ...In your neighbourhood!

    CHILDREN:
    Every sperm is useful.
    Every sperm is fine.
    FUNERAL CORTEGE:
    God needs everybody's.
    MOURNER #1:
    Mine!
    MOURNER #2:
    And mine!
    CORPSE:
    And mine!

    NUN:
    Let the Pagan spill theirs
    O'er mountain, hill, and plain.
    HOLY STATUES:
    God shall strike them down for
    Each sperm that's spilt in vain.

    EVERYONE:
    Every sperm is sacred.
    Every sperm is good.
    Every sperm is needed
    In your neighbourhood.

    Every sperm is sacred.
    Every sperm is great.
    If a sperm is wasted,
    God gets quite iraaaaaate!

    Youtube

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    Hahahaha ... Daniel ... the Meaning of Life?

  • Daniel Westerberg

    Sure is the meaning of life, and what's the moral story? no condoms and no abortion? then you just have to sell the kids to medical experiments :D

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    Hahahaha ... I remember that scene ... the poor Catholic family and the Protestant family :)

  • Minger
    Minger wrote:

    Desmond,

    莫明 u mean castration! U can't tell us that often times u use it while having quality time with ur missus, this is a fact, sometime, people just skip to wear it and the girl gets pregnant. R u gonna volunteer to be castrated in that case?

    I have never had sex without using a (real) form of birth control. I may very well never do so, and I do in fact believe that men who are aware that unprotected sex causes pregnancy and yet proceed to have unprotected sex while not intending to create a pregnancy should be castrated.

    As for sex education, Is it for promoting sex to unmarried people or preventing it?

    No. It is for educating people who might otherwise get unwanted pregnancies and STDs on how not to do so.

  • High Priest
    High Priest wrote:

    莫明,

    What are the real form of brith control apart from condom you often use? You mean spilling out? It's one the ways too.

  • Minger
    Minger wrote:

    No, it isn't Desmond. Neither is the cycle method. If you can't have sex 1000 times and not get anyone pregnant, then I'm not considering it as real birth control. I would accept various chemical solutions with a committed partner (who I know will remember to use them) or surgery. Other than that, a rubber a play keeps abortion and children away.

  • Minger
    Minger wrote:

    the day after pill, aka plan B (meaning this should be your backup after your primary birth control method fails), is ~75% effective from what I recall. It prevents ovulation, and that means it does fuck all if the girl is already ovulating or was in the past few days.

    It helps to have it for when mistakes happen, but it can't cure stupidity

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    Don't be short with Desmond. He gets all his safe sex instruction manuals from the Vatican, after all.

  • Minger
    Minger wrote:

    Real question here as I'm trying to understand this 95% claim. I'm actually only asking Dando because I assume the rest of you are Aiken, and he's the only one who's sexually literate.

    Assumptions:
    1. sperm can live for 5 days in a woman after intercourse
    2. ovulation takes place over 5 days (5 days from ovaries to uterus).

    Key:
    O: one day of ovulation only (OO means two days, etc.)
    -: one day of sperm life only in a woman (-- means two days, etc).
    O: one day of consequent sperm life and ovulation, a.k.a. a very high chance of fertilization.

    Moving on:

    OOOOO----:ovulation 5 days before intercourse. Plan B has no effect. High chance of fertilization.

    OOOOO---: ovulation 4 days before intercourse. Plan B changes the equation to OOOO----. High chance of fertilization.

    OOOOO--:ovulation 3 days before intercourse. Plan B changes the equation to OOO----. High chance of fertilization.

    You get the idea. Skipping 2 days before and 1 day before...

    -OOOOO: Ovulation the day after intercourse. Plan B changes the equation to -----. extremely low chance of fertilization.

    --OOOOO: Ovulation two days after intercourse. Plan B changes the equation to -----. extremely low chance of fertilization.

    etcetera etcetera etcetera...

    To me it appears that, of the ~10 days per cycle when it is possible that intercourse will result in fertilization, plan B could only have an effect of any kind on 5 of those days. Yet I have certainly heard claims that it is between 75% and 95% effective if taken between the morning after and 2 days later.

    Master Dando, please explain the discrepancy.

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    To my knowledge, Plan B doesn't really prevent ovulation. It's just a higher dosage of the regular female hormones that are in regular birth control pills. So it's more appropriate to say that it prevents a fertilized egg from attaching itself or remaining attached to the uterine wall.

  • Ejdnzlaj
    Ejdnzlaj wrote:

    Double up. The pill and a rubber. Everyone is happy, especially the non-existant kids that weren't born to parents who'll look at them and see a mistake every day for the rest of their lives.

  • Peter S 李贝勒

    @ Daniel Westerberg

    i really like the monty python!

    @ Desmond

    "As for sex education, Is it for promoting sex to unmarried people or preventing it?"

    ahah, wedding is really not the point, sex education is to have good sex, mean, how to avoid or how to have a children, then talk about the pleasure, how to fuck well, learn to communicate with ur partner, etcetc...

    @ all of U

    i think the oldest way of contraception is to don t come inside ur "sweet lovely"...

    work very well, but not sure at 100% !!! it s a question of how the man control himself.

    Then, to avoid the sexual disease, the best way is the condom...

    finally this part is the more simple to understand.

    What is more difficult for a lot of people is to be able to talk about sexe without taboo.

    cause it s dirty or u cannot say sperm or i wanna put my dick in ur ass bitch or whatever...

    for sure, no communication is the best way to have problems. But we already can say :

    sexe is not dirty, it s good, if it s not good for U we have to find the way to give u pleasure. Sex is a game. Sperm is not dirty, it s the most noble substance that god created. if u don t like that we don t do, u really like that, let s do it eheh...etc etc...

  • Peter S 李贝勒

    @ Daniel Westerberg

    i really like the monty python!

    @ Desmond

    "As for sex education, Is it for promoting sex to unmarried people or preventing it?"

    ahah, wedding is really not the point, sex education is to have good sex, mean, how to avoid or how to have a children, then talk about the pleasure, how to fuck well, learn to communicate with ur partner, etcetc...

    @ all of U

    i think the oldest way of contraception is to don t come inside ur "sweet lovely"...

    work very well, but not sure at 100% !!! it s a question of how the man control himself.

    Then, to avoid the sexual disease, the best way is the condom...

    finally this part is the more simple to understand.

    What is more difficult for a lot of people is to be able to talk about sexe without taboo.

    cause it s dirty or u cannot say sperm or i wanna put my dick in ur ass bitch or whatever...

    for sure, no communication is the best way to have problems. But we already can say :

    sexe is not dirty, it s good, if it s not good for U we have to find the way to give u pleasure. Sex is a game. Sperm is not dirty, it s the most noble substance that god created. if u don t like that we don t do, u really like that, let s do it eheh...etc etc...

  • Minger
    Minger wrote:

    Dando Z 单独子 wrote:

    To my knowledge, Plan B doesn't really prevent ovulation. It's just a higher dosage of the regular female hormones that are in regular birth control pills. So it's more appropriate to say that it prevents a fertilized egg from attaching itself or remaining attached to the uterine wall.

    NO! I think you got confused. That's the argument that the religious wrong makes in order to try to get female birth control classified as abortion and outlawed. There is a [tiny] possibility that the zygote might not implant due to the use of pills/Plan B, but the main function is to prevent ovulation. Wiki had a study showing no statistical correlation between post-ovulation Plan B use and pregnancy. Definitely not an abortion pill. I would love to see one available over the counter though.

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    @Ming,

    Right on, my bad.

  • High Priest
    High Priest wrote:

    Dando,

     I guess you won't tell your 10 or 12 eleven years old child to use condom when he  or she is horny. I think at this age, you should teach him or her how to contain himself or herself. At this stage I think u should use the sex vatican manual. To tell a child, please, this is not the time, u should refrain urself and be patient, it's not a good time yet. This is what seems to be hard for nowadays parents to say to their  kids. Because parents now obey to their kids.

    Abstinence

    Piere Stone, I guess this is a new curriculum for sex education,"to teach how to fuck well," How to fuck well by the way? Which one? Anal sex or...?

    So people, abstinence can't be taught any  longer? Is it like if I'm hungry I necessay need to buy food and eat?

     

     

     

     

  • Simen Wangberg

    Honestly, if a 12-year-old is actually in a position where they have to make that choice, I'm gonna hope and pray that they know what condoms are and how to use them.

    Sure, tell a 12-year-old to contain himself...you can't even get kids that age to sit still, let alone anything else.

    As an aside: Vatican sex manual? Lolwut is that?

    Be fruitful and multiply...BUT DON'T THINK ABOUT SEX, EVER.

  • Simen Wangberg

    Also:

    "Is it like if I'm hungry I necessay need to buy food and eat?"

    Yes. That's actually exactly how it works. You get hungry, you eat food. The cycle repeats ad infinitum until you die.

    Are you telling us that someone else has been making this decision for you for the duration of your life thus far?

  • Ejdnzlaj
    Ejdnzlaj wrote:

    Kids aren't like dogs, they'll do what they want. They've done what they want all throughout history. You think there wasn't any teen pregnancy 100 years ago? There was TONS.

    Abstinence education doesn't work because teenagers are naturally curious and rebellious.

    Your rediculous straw man argument isn't fooling anyone Desmond so you should drop it. Sex ed doesn't teach kids how to have good sex. Seriously, find me proof of that. Please. It'd be really interesting. I really doubt it though. Sex education is aobut making sure the younger generation is SAFE and don't make any mistakes they are going to regret for the rest of their life... like having a kid.

  • High Priest
    High Priest wrote:

    Kieran, what's the need of being parents if ur kids shoud do whatever they want then? What's  the parents' role then?

    It's true that since years back kids have been getting pregnants and on, but when you take a look of the families that these kids come from, you would notice that if not they come from broken families their parents didn't have time to spend with their kids and guide them...This will help delay sex for teens.

    sex education is usually taught not once, but in multiple doses at different grade levels as the student matures. When students are taught about abstinence, in most cases, they will also receive biological information about reproduction and contraception in another part of their course work. By 11th or 12th grade, some of students have been taught about birth control in school.

    Only a tiny minority of parents support the values and messages taught in comprehensive sex education curricula. Since the themes of these courses (such as "It's okay for teens to have sex as long as they use condoms") contradict and undermine the basic values parents want their children to be taught, these courses would be unacceptable even if combined with other materials.

    The popular culture bombards teens with messages encouraging casual sexual activity at an early age. To counteract this, parents want teens to be taught a strong abstinence message. Parents overwhelmingly support abstinence curricula that link sexuality to love, intimacy, and commitment and that urge teens to delay sexual activity until maturity or evenmarriage.

    High Priest

  • Minger
    Minger wrote:

    I fully support abstinance education. People should be aware that abstaining from sex is the most effective form of birth control - as effective as a vasectomy or using a condom correctly, and even more effective against STDs.

    But, for people who are sexually mature and want to have sex anyway (sexual maturity happens between 12-18), abstinance is probably not an option they will choose to use. I think it's great that they be told that option is available, but they should know the alternatives as well since it is biologically improbable that any species will choose not to use it's reproductive functions when the option is available (if they would, the species would die out relatively quickly, wouldn't it).

  • Ejdnzlaj
    Ejdnzlaj wrote:

    Desmond, the fact of the matter is: Teens are going to have sex. Maybe not all of them, but they are. There is no doubt about it. How many times have you seen a sign that says "keep off the grass" and wanted to run all over it just because someone told you not to? I sure have. Don't think telling teens not to have sex doesn't have the same effect. The more you tell someone not to do something the more they think about it and the more they want to find out what it's like.

    Sex education is about acceptiong what the world is actually like and doing something about protecting the younger generation from mistakes, instead of sticking your head in the sand and pretending you can make it all go away.

    At no point is sex advocated, or encouraged in any sex education program anywhere in the world. Nobody says that it is ok so long as you use a condom. You are always told that it is best NOT to do it. Sex education is about not being stupid enough to think that just telling someone to not do something is enough though. So you also get taught about how contraception works, and what HIV and other STDs are.

     

    Abstinence education DOESN'T work, and that's a fact. All the statistics prove it. It doesn't matter if it's what you think is right, because it doesn't work. Decisions should be made on results, not kneejerk moral reactions.

  • Ekki
    Ekki wrote:

    i still don't understand why a priest spends so much time trolling the WLIB forums...

     

    seriously.

  • Ejdnzlaj
    Ejdnzlaj wrote:

    I should update the Desmond Tutu wikipedia:

     

    The Most Rev. Dr. Desmond Mpilo Tutu (born 7 October 1931) is a South African activist and Christian cleric who rose to worldwide fame during the 1980s as an opponent of apartheid. He was the first black South African Anglican Archbishop of Cape Town, South Africa, and primate of the Church of the Province of Southern Africa (now the Anglican Church of Southern Africa).

    Archbishop Tutu has been active in the defense of human rights and uses his high profile to campaign for the oppressed[clarification needed]. He has campaigned to fight AIDS, tuberculosis, homophobia, transphobia, poverty and racism. Tutu received the Nobel Peace Prize in 1984, the Albert Schweitzer Prize for Humanitarianism in 1986, the Gandhi Peace Prize in 2005,[1] and the Presidential Medal of Freedom in 2009. Tutu has also compiled several books of his speeches and sayings and is also known to frequent to message boards of the website We Live In Beijing

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    @Desmond,

    "I guess you won't tell your 10 or 12 eleven years old child to use condom when he  or she is horny."

    I found my dad's dirty magazines and heard all sorts of weird kinky shit from my peers far earlier than that. Moreover, I grew up in a small town in traditional family values middle-of-nowhere Midwestern USA, so 10-12 sounds like the absolute LATEST that sex education should start, in my opinion. The moment kids are aware enough to ask "Where did I come from?" is the moment sex education should begin.

    There's no reason to teach abstinence in schools. It's a moral decision. We're already always aware of the option of not fucking, and we don't need public school teachers to make us aware of that option. Abstinence only sex education is just a religious codeword for an absence of sex education.

    Giving even young kids technical information about how to avoid pregnancy and STDs is absolutely vital for public health. Whether kids should be scared of vaginas is at best a secondary moral concern. Concerned parents can show their kids some video footage of child births to such an ends. To be certain, this wholesome and wholly atheistic method of abstinence education is far more effective than telling kids that premarital sex will make Baby Jesus cry.

  • High Priest
    High Priest wrote:

    Ekki, what's wrong with the Priest skimming WLIB and share or listening to the gospel? I doubt there's segregation on this side:) after all, laymen and we religious are same and children of Lord.

    Thanks for that update Kieran:)

    I would like to ask u Kieran and Dando, when was ur first sex? I don't think it was at 10.

    I do think, you all desagree with me in a way that helping teen to delay sex is a crime here.

    How to help teens to delay this, it's from much attention and more other programs that can divert their lust to sex.  I see traditionel parents in the US installing a software blocking access to sex sites. I see traditional parents checking which healthy program their kids should watch on TV... Am talking about the efforts parents can do to help immature teen to go faster to the path of fuckanization.

    High Priest

     

  • Ejdnzlaj
    Ejdnzlaj wrote:

    I'm not disagreeing with you about the fact you should try to stop young people having sex at a young age, but the point I'm making is that all the efforts possible wont stop it happening so you shouldn't pretend that they are enough. I think encouraging abstinence is good, but I don't think it's that effective. You have to encourage it while also making sure young people are educated enough that when they end up breaking the rules they don't throw their lives away.

    Obviously, not everyone is going to have sex under the legal age, but some will. That's just the way it is. Oh, by the way, 10 is rediculous to use as an age in an attepmt to make a point. I don't think it's even possible for guys to have sex till puberty and I don't know anyone who hit puberty that young... and I was a really "early bloomer".

    In fact, much as lots of people tend to get terrified about our children being bombarded by sexual imagery that makes them apparently go crazy and have sex an an unnaturally young age, it turns out that people (on average) have sex at a much later age now than at any other point in the history of recorded civilisation. Strangely this statistic is correlated with sex education. Now, I'm not going to say it's sex education that causes this entirely, but I'll bet that it is a factor. Other factors will probably be the kind of things that are different in the almost always developed nations where sex education is mandatory.

  • High Priest
    High Priest wrote:

    Andy:) thanks for the recognition. But, is WLIB a hookers' factory also? You know know well that am a vegetarian Andy:)

    Cheers!

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