Discussion » Nonsense » What is independence in westerners' eyes?

  • Annabel Lee
    Annabel Lee wrote:

    Before this I would like to tell you 2 stories about western guys in advance.
    1. I read from a guy who wrote requirments for his GF-to-be: "I’m looking for a woman who shows who she is, independently of her love for the man in her life. "

    2. I asked a friend why he is still single. He said, when his ex-gfs found he could still live very well without them, then they all run away.

    I think Generally speaking, westerners are more romatic and they pay more attention to inside of mankind(compare with chinese ppl 's material marriage view) . and what's more, a mount of TV production and literatures showed lots of heart-moving couples and and heart-broken love stories. All of these convinced me of a truth that western ppl are emotional, home-loving and affectionate than chinese ppl.

    So, What do you western guys mean by independence? coz I think most of us(i mean normal person) is independent(reletively, especially in mind) no matter for chinese or westerners.

    Do you mean physically: for your gf, if you need her, then come. if you don't need, then go away and keep you alone and independent?

    or, do you mean mentally: you would feel bothered or annoyed if your gf is addicted to you or when she feels lonely or helpless or in some trouble, u just keep silent to keep you independent?

    or, do you mean economically: when your gf need your financial help, you would like to turn away? for you believe that 's her business? but I know it is common in western countries that wives do not work and leave the husband support their family.

    So, what do you mean by independence? Is that an excuse of your being out of responsibility if your partner would have any trouble?

  • Marte Joahansen

    There are 2 views to what you are wanting to know.

    We could see an independent wife or an independent

    girlfriend in this case.

    It now depends on the perspective you are coming from

    i.e either wanting to have our views on independent wives

    or independent girlfriends respectively.

     

    To be brief, i don't understand what independence for a wife means..

    I mean, if she's really your wife, that would be weird. 

    Unless of course it's a contract marriage were handling here.

     

    As for the girlfriends, you could help her out of your own free will

    when she's in need. But, if she feels any need to see herself as 

    an independent girlfriend, then she has unseen motives. As i wonder

    what kind of girlfriend would be dependent on her bloke or otherwise.

    It just sounds so irresponsible.

     

    The love dies automatically immediately your wife becomes independent.

     Show me an independent girlfriend, I'ld remind her of the fact that she

    has parents she could depend upon.

    Afterall love is about sharing and not dependence.

    Where people bring formalities even to people they are intimate with, it

    wouldn't then be surprising when issues as such come up.

    Live your lives..i mean your real lives and then encounter real love.

     

  • 外交猫
    外交猫 wrote:

    I just want a girl who is independent enough to not live with her fucking parents.  That shows me she is free and can take care of herself.  That's enough.

  • High Priest
    High Priest wrote:

    Ethan, Kudos! Good explanation.

    One more think, we've got to go back to the basis to better understand something. In love, in family, wife and hubby become one, they depend upon each other. Originally, they had different roles. After sin, they were cursed. Man should be sweating to feed the family, the woman had to suffer on her labor. Thus, man should be the one to look for money and support the family, the wife was handed a noble to role to bring up children and take care of her home.

    Because of sin, men abused on their women, women were at home and looked not different from slaves, men would spend much of their times in bars and clubs, wasting all the money on prostitutes. These women who were not much educated, would end up carrying all the family burden while hubbies have hooked up with other bitches.

    Women came to realize that they need to study and work, in case my marriage doesn't work, I can feed myself and the kids. Women liberation took place and we saw how this movement has brought women to the helm of powers and they have achieved great things.

    But what are the consequences of this? Kids who are born in this era, mostly don't have good education, I mean, rude comparing to the previous time. We's just have to see how violence among teens in industrialized has spread. Parents now obey to their kids, which should be the contrary.

    Some conservative family in the 80s decided to homeschool their kids because of much violence and rudeness in public schools. That was the boom of homeschooling.

    Women get too much stressed out because, they work together with their husbands, once at home, they've got to do the house chores mostly alone, look after the kids while men basically never pay much attention on housework.

    In a survey conducted in the US some years back, the majority of women agreed that they are woking out of necessity. If another choice was given to them, they would prefer to look after their children and their homes. Women are too depressed in this current society.

    Howhever, if a couple is independ financially, they are on the bink of collaps. If you love someone, you don't to be financially divided, something wrong there...:)

     

    High Priest

     

     

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    Hahahaha ... this somehow reminds me of the old song "She works hard for her money" by Donna Summers, but I cannot find her version, so I found this one instead, by Young Divas ...

    If I may say so ... Annabel had chosen another topic that has a little too much generalization, because "westerners" come in many different flavours, including American, British, Italian, Greek etc ... and some of them hold a fairly traditional view, similar to the ones found among many Asian cultures, that women should stay home and mind the kids etc ...

    As far as "relationship" is concerned, per my limited experience and today's "environment", I think it is important to have mental and financial independence, i.e. to think for oneself and be able to live by oneself ...

    When I said "financial independence", it means that the woman in a relationship should have her own career and source of income, instead of being totally dependent on the man/husband ... as for money, in contrast to what Desmond said, I believe that a couple should "share" part of the money, while maintaining certain independency ... in our case, we have access to each other's money (via internet), have a joint account and kept all numbers in Excel, and we are allowed to spend (to a reasonable amount) without "consulting" the other ...

    My reason:

    I have witnessed quite a few cases since I came to China, where the women of the relationships being lost and helpless after breaking up or divorce, because they have grown to become dependant on the men ... some of them even have kids ...

  • Jenelyn Tambago

    I rather think that independence in this case is to doing stuff. Like there are girls that are too sticky, want to do everything with their bfs or know everything they do. For me at least thats annoying. And I've heard a lot of cases where chinese gf don't let her bfs have any female friends/ even block them from msn!! ...for westerners thats awful, at lest in my country thats not an issue, but seems here is a big deal.

    So i guess once his gfs realize they didn't have any control on him, they run away. Girls love to have control over things...

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    Hahahaha ... yeah, and my wife controls my money, because my mother taught her that men cannot have too much money ...

  • Krister Thonerud

    Healthy relationships are interdependent, partners that can rely on and trust eachother but still remain true to themselves as individuals.  Too independent or too dependent leads to problems when dealing with things that inevitably turn up as two people share paths in life.  I think this applies for romantic and platonic relationships alike.

    No matter what a person's cultural background that kind of balance is hard to find.  The only relationships I've witnessed that are truly happy are those where both people have a strong trust for and actually believe in their partner.  If you need to control any part of their life or seek security in constant confirmation then trust or communication isn't strong enough.  This, I think, stems from one's own insecurities.  Therefore there isn't balance between one's own independent sense of self and comfortability with reliance on others.  In other words, not an interdependent relationship.

  • Simen Stensvoll


    ...what if i want my bf to shower me?
  • Marte Joahansen

    provided you do likewise,

    sure.

  • High Priest
    High Priest wrote:

    Pablo, if a girl loves u more, she would need security. No such a girl would allow u to be teaching her cheaply. If she has suspected you once, she can't let you hanging out with female friends without knowing the type of relationships u r having.

    This is not a matter of western or Easterns, the majority of girls don't want to be cheated, unless those few westeners who like swinging:) or 3somes.

    I don't thing Elin Tiger Wood was a Chinese or Cole's wife, Rooney's wife...these ladies are wounded all their lives and once in a while they will keep on checking on their men for security.

    High Priest (Woman advocate)

  • High Priest
    High Priest wrote:

    It can't help Shadow, it can't. It's just a way women try to make sure in willing to know more secrets from their love to feel protected. But, it brings a lot of frustration and conflict.

    The only remedy is to restore the trust that was lost, it needs a lot of efforts and long suffering...

    For mature ladies, they don't like to be checking men's too much, because they are gonna be hurt...

  • High Priest
    High Priest wrote:

    Trust can be still rebuilt Shadow. I often say, in this game of love, mostly ladies used to lose once the game ends. Emotionally ladies get too much hurt, then to find another man, it's really takes time. I'm talking about a man who really loves u. It's good to try and get that trust back. People aren't animals, they can change...

    Ladies should learn more from Hillary Clinton, she is the greatest woman of all time, both in politics and family. She forgave her hubby, and her hubby loved her more...today many girls want to divorce and break, I don't see any solution into these:)

    High Priest

  • Ms. Stephanie
    Ms. Stephanie wrote:

    long long long paragraph only happened when I was writing my paper at Uni. Hmm.. such a long time ago...  

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    Hahahaha ... Stephanie ... if it is a long time for you, it would have been long time + long time + long time ... for me ...

  • Ms. Stephanie
    Ms. Stephanie wrote:

    Im sure it is Uncle DD :) 

  • 哎呀
    哎呀 wrote:

    All women should at least be able to do two things: financially independent and emotionally independent. That's for their own good, otherwise you may seek a partner just because of material needs or emotional safety; you don't have guts to leave him because you're worried about your poor financial situation and scared of loneliness even though there is no love between you two.

    An ideal relationship (for me) is: Both have ability to be independent but at the same time they are willing to help each other financially and emotionally when there's a need. They have their own jobs, friends, hobbies and space. They can understand, appreciate, admire and learn each other's strengths (competence, knowledge, intelligence, humor, creativity, kindness etc.), and they can also detect each other's weaknesses and help each other to correct them using an accepted way. In general, They are contributing to each other's life positively and make them both much better person. ^^

  • Virgil W
    Virgil W wrote:

    Well said Erik.

  • High Priest
    High Priest wrote:

    @ Annabel Lee Thanks:)

    @ Erik, thanks for clear cut explanations on this topic. I do hope, ladies and gentlemen here grasp this opportunity to learn from these admonitions preached by this guy. I'm not sure which seminary you went to:)

    I'd like to mention here that ladies should try to be independent in a way they can stand by themselves by having any skill that can help them making some financial means. This is life has some upheavals, hubby could pass away at anytime for instance, if you've got no skill, how would live if kids are with u? We can't talk of some irresponsible guys who can dump u at any time while kids are growing up...It's goood to have some skills.

    I do agree a couple should have some individual hobbies and interests, some personal friends... some privacy...There is nothing with that. But if this become suspicious, that's dangerous. Independency here doesn't mean to betray ur partner but doing something not suspicious indenpendly:)

     

     

  • Jenny&King
    Jenny&King wrote:
    ah, for girl take care of urself and saneness&thought autocephaly is more inportant than rely on husband of bf,and then u can take care of each other , cause when couple share life will be more issues that u 2 help each other, not just simple girl's independent or boy's independent thing, there will be more connected .

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