Discussion » Chinese Language & Culture » 为什么喊“老外”?

  • Desipen
    Desipen wrote:

    到这里不过几天,发现好多国内朋友“老外老外”的喊的挺欢。

    听着貌似善意的调侃,但是,

    俺觉得这不好。

    估计有好些非国内土著居民老想纠正,最后都无奈的放弃了。

    传统的力量很强大哦。

  • Xiao
    Xiao wrote:

    因为如果是“老内”就很难反应出他们的特性 其实带不带贬义都依情况而定的 比如:这个老外人很好 就没贬义 如果是:这个老外人很贱 就有贬义

    楼主你多虑了

  • Minger
    Minger wrote:

    我还不认识任何喜欢听这个词语的老外。

  • Ms. Stephanie
    Ms. Stephanie wrote:
    I don't call them Lao Wai.. but I would go "Yang Ren 洋人" or " Yang Gui Zi 洋鬼子" for those Chinese who changed their passport lately, I call them "Fake Yang Gui Zi. 假洋鬼子" ...lol What a cute nick name.. ;D
  • Minger
    Minger wrote:

    I like to be called, "莫明"。If you don't know my name, 先生,朋友,哥们,加入称呼非要和民族或者国籍有关系,你可以说英国人,美国人,俄罗斯人,白种人,或者外国人。

    Of course, if your intention is express racism because of some inferiority issues, anything with 鬼 in the name will work well.

  • Ms. Stephanie
    Ms. Stephanie wrote:
    莫明,I dout really care about political issues, that's guys topic for me. Nothing about racism or anything you mentioned inferiority issues... I just said what I like to call in general. Of course I will call you "mo ming" in person, but when ppl ask me more.. I would probably say oh, he is 洋人。that's it.. Don't be that sensitive.. not good for you health buddy.
  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    Hahahaha ... another deja vu?

    莫明 ... you mean they dont like it at all, or they dont even know that term is being used to address them?

    Desipen ... 虽然我跟你都有同一的意见,但恐怕我们是改变不了这个"习惯",就跟吐痰,或很随意的抛垃圾一样。。。

     

  • Da Fan
    Da Fan wrote:
    我通常不会当着外国人的面儿用“老外”这个词儿的,但如果是一群中国人,我确实会用这个词儿,因为通常情况下,一个白人或黑人,如果我不认识他的话,我很难知道他的国籍。好比说,一个白人,他可能的国籍有几十个;一个黑人,他可能的国籍也有几十个;再好比一个拉美人,他可能的国籍也有十几个...于是,我就只能用“老外”来称呼了。同时呢,可能很多外国人觉得“老外”和“外国人”这两个词儿有区别,但就我了解,很少有中国人认为这两个词儿有区别。而一门语言,语义是native speaker定义的,因为从语言学角度讲,非母语的人并没有定义一门语言准确语义的能力。同时,“老外”这个词儿,即没有字面意义上的歧视意味(“洋鬼子”这个词儿就有),也没有历史上歧视意味,于是在我看来,这个词儿并没有任何问题。 另外,我们还要注意到一点,中国现在并不是一个移民国家,这也使得中国人习惯地把中和外分得很清楚。这本身并没有任何好或不好的。
  • Karo
    Karo wrote:
    不知道从什么时候开始流行这个词的~但是真的没有贬义~就像远处看见一堆老人就叫他们老头儿老太太啊~再或者就是叫他们外国人不顺口 老外叫着顺口~ 语言习惯的问题~为什么会介意???
  • Ms. Stephanie
    Ms. Stephanie wrote:
    老外这个词很common了,也许在国外其他国家也会有类似对我们外国人的叫类似叫法吧。但还真是没觉得有什么要歧视的意思。 洋人基本上是我一直叫的,这个也完全没有什么其他的意思。 当然了,这年头用洋鬼子的毕竟比较少了,只是为了好玩儿有时会用到而已。有名有姓的为什么不叫呢。
  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    。。。

    哈哈哈,是啊,有啊,在澳洲,常听到的是"qing chong china men"。。。他们也觉得挺好玩的。。。

  • Minger
    Minger wrote:

    叮当,请常冲中国人呢~哈哈

    当我们老外在教室里学这个词语的时候,我们对它没有看法。反正从词儿的字面意义上来看,它明显不是贬义词。但是,到了中国之后我们发现使用这个词儿来叫我们的人往往没有什么好的意思。我知道我中国朋友都会用这个词儿,但是他们也不会去喊街上的”老外“。

    大哥,你在美国对不对?你有没有接触过"colored people"或者"China men"?两个词儿也是字面上没有贬义,但是它们就有那个味道。这两个词以前也和”老外“一样那么常用。我们也有更丑的词儿,甚至连”中国鬼子"也有(这个应该是向中国人学的),但是稍微有素质的人应该知道别用。

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    。。。

    哈哈哈哈,莫明 。。。比这个更差的,我猜你也听过?

    这个话题,之前在这里其实已经讨论了很多次,没有一个确实的结论,更有些外国人觉得这个是可以接受的,我的个人意见是(用英文来说)"to each his own",但没有人可能代十几亿中国人说,这个词是没有贬义的,因为带着贬义说这个的,确实是不少。。。

  • Jackie
    Jackie wrote:
    这没有什么歧视啊,因为你是外国人,不知道你的名字,所以简单点就叫他老外了.想多了....
  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)
  • Da Fan
    Da Fan wrote:
    @莫名,我理解你说的这个事情的逻辑,但是,因为这涉及到一个人的观察结果和主观感受,所以还是很难说。毕竟,没有任何一个官方的词典给过“老外”明确的解释。同时,如果你的观察是,使用“老外”这个词儿来称呼外国人的中国人通常没有好的意思,那么,更多的人在更多的情况下,对外国人并没有任何不好的意思,他们会使用什么词儿?有一种可能,这个词儿被广泛的使用,词儿本身并没有什么褒义或贬义,但这个词儿被带有褒义、贬义、或中性的人使用,你只记住了那些有不好的意思的人在用,于是加深了对这个词儿的不好的印象。当然,我说的只是可能。 至于类似“china man”之类的词儿,怎么说呢,我更多的还是关注用这些词儿的人的真实态度,这些态度是藏不起来的。 另外,“china man”和“老外”严格讲并没有直接的类比关系。"china man"毕竟是在针对某个国家,但“老外”只是泛指所有外国人。而且这也与中国和美国的移民政策有关。美国是一个移民国家,对“自己人”和“外来人”的概念自然淡得多,所以你们更多强调的是white, hispanic, african american, asia之类的概念,以及是否是immigrants,而不是citizen和foreigner的概念。中国不是移民国家,如果你是外国人,基本上永远就是外国人了。这也就是为什么,对于中国人,“中”和“外”的区别才是最首要的。 至于贬义的词儿,在中文里,更多的其实就是在针对国家,好比说叫韩国人叫棒子,管日本人叫鬼子或倭奴,管俄国人叫毛子,管印度人叫阿三儿。除此之外,中文里还真的很少有特意针对某个国家的人的明显带有贬义意味的词汇,类似“美国鬼子”之类的词儿在生活中用得远不如类似“韩国棒子”之类的词儿多。 所以说,如果“china man”带有贬义,那也不奇怪,毕竟这已经是针对某个国家了。针对国家、肤色和宗教信仰的非标准词典称谓,基本上才都是贬义的。好比说"japs",再好比说"nigger"。这些词儿,谁说都不对。但如果有一天,英语中也有了一个“foreigner”的变种词汇,不认识我的人用明显不带恶意的态度如此称呼我,我是不会介意的。 当然,这个确实是个个人主观感受的问题。如果你实在不喜欢,直接跟对方说明就好了。
  • Da Fan
    Da Fan wrote:
    观点可以不同,但我还是希望大家说话都能有点儿最基本的逻辑。再强调一次,通常带有贬义意味的词汇,都是直接针对国籍、民族、肤色、宗教信仰等的非标准词典的词汇。用这些词汇和指示国内/国外的词汇作类比? 智商智商啊~
  • Ms. Stephanie
    Ms. Stephanie wrote:
    印度人叫阿三,没有儿在三的后面。。 啊哈哈哈 说的很到位。。。 “中国鬼子?”这词儿第一次听,觉得挺有意思。。 难道是西藏那边儿传出来的?
  • Yuki Inés
    Yuki Inés wrote:

    我不觉老外这个词有什么歧视、不友好的*味道*之类的。语言不是固定的东西,是随着不同时代不同人叫出变得不同的,字面上也好意思也好,都是语言,但是实际上我们在 言语,这不是个死的东西。

    有一次我在布鲁塞尔买馅饼,一个人问我哪来的,我说China,他就非说,支那,支那,支那,如此三四回,老子就怒了,想起教科书里说,外国人喜欢用支那来贬损我们,我狠狠盯着他。。。。。。长达10分钟。。。。那人很无辜地看着我。。。。

    结果后来学第二语言,才知道China的发音不就是支那么。人家也没什么殖民地语言那种意思。

    有时候有的人,脆弱的小心理啊。

  • Minger
    Minger wrote:

    尊重的中国同胞们,

    我个人不认为Chinaman, colored people, 甚至连negro本身有什么报的意思。但是,只要人家不喜欢听,我就不乱说。

    大哥,你说得对,好像英语也没有类似针对外国人的俚语,可能最多只能说“foreigner”。对一些美国红脖子来讲,可能foreigner就是贬义词。当他们常用这个词儿来说你的时候,你可能也会开始介意我叫你foreigner.

    对了,我们都有各国的文化习俗。可能一个因素是我们不喜欢在别人的脑子里被混在一起。英语也有一个中性词儿叫"oriental",就是东方【人】的意思。或许是因为中国鬼子不喜欢和日本鬼子被混在一块,或许是因为某些别的原因,但是这个词儿在现代社会多算贬义词,我们不会用。

  • Ms. Stephanie
    Ms. Stephanie wrote:
    哎呦喂。。。。。。!。。。。。。。。!。。。。。。。。! 一天挺忙挺累的了,来个论坛还这个那个的。 Let's talk about sex!!!! MD
  • Simen Stensvoll
    LETS MAKE LOVE
  • Simen Stensvoll
    TO THIS FUCKING WORLD
  • Da Fan
    Da Fan wrote:
    @莫名,嗯,没有太大的本质区别。我的意思就是类似于,如果美国不是一个移民国家的话,明显善良友好的人叫我“foreigner”我就不会觉得什么,而乡下的土鳖redneck叫我“foreigner”的话,我可能就会觉得些什么。而“foreigner“和类似”chink“之类的词儿还是有区别的,因为我知道,只要是当着我的面儿叫我“chink”的人,除非他是我很好的朋友,和我开玩笑,其他情况下,基本上不可能有善意。 @others,讨论sex没意思,结论早就有了:你要“九浅一深”咱就“九浅一深”,你要“十深”咱就“十深”;你要5分钟完事儿咱就5分钟,你要2小时完事儿咱就2小时。总之一切随你,质量有保障,用过的都说好:D
  • 事与愿违
    事与愿违 wrote:
    原来还有“中国鬼子”这个词儿,o(╯□╰)o “老外”是中性词,叫的人都没恶意,不过我从来不叫,喜欢叫外国人。发现这里好多外国人也喜欢称自己老外啊,还以为没人介意呢
  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    。。。

    呵呵呵,想到两个英文字,莫明,有兴趣的话,把你的想法告诉我。。。"shove" 。。。"force"。。。

  • Desipen
    Desipen wrote:

    俺觉得,很多国人讨论这个词喜欢说:”我觉得这个词挺好的,我觉得没问题“。问题是,这不是“你”觉得如何的问题,而是“他”是否感觉好的问题。

    只从自己角度考虑问题是天底下最容易做的事情。

    就说我说某人是土包子,他表示不满,我对他说,你理解错了,我说土包子是对你表示亲切的意思。

    这话说的通吗。

    大家别介意,我没挑起大家争论的意思。但是我刚来,我想说点儿啥,纯属吃饱了撑的。

  • Da Fan
    Da Fan wrote:
    大家只是讨论,没有争论啦,就算是争论也没什么的,呵呵。but it doesn't make sense,原因还是一样的:不能这么类比。你说某人是土包子,说的人和听的人用的是一个语言,大家都知道土包子这个词儿到底是什么意思,而且这个词儿字面上有明显的一个不太可能表达美好意义的字:“土”。这种情况下,你自然很难去辩解。现在的情况是,我国有一个词儿,叫做“老外”,这个词儿字面上没有明显的有不好的意思的字,这个词儿也没有不光辉的历史,同时,你去调查所有中国人,包括所有对外国人有善意或恶意或中性的中国人,问他们“老外”这个词儿,只是词儿,其本身是褒义、贬义、还是中性,结果很可能是中性(这一点我没做过调查,可以就此讨论),在这种情况下,一个从语言学上没有能力定义这个词的词义的外国人,听别人这么称呼他感觉不好(排除对使用这个词儿且他有恶意的人的恶意给他造成的感受转移因素),这个事情不是讲不讲得通的问题,而是奇怪不奇怪的问题。这就好比是,如果英语里有一个称呼中国人的词儿,这个词儿字面上没什么特别,使用历史上没出现过什么贬义,而随机采访英语为母语的人,大多数觉得这个词儿没有任何贬义,也没有任何官方素材明确给出这个词儿“有贬义”的定义。在此情况下,如果我听到有人这么称呼我,于是觉得感觉不好了,这只能说我莫名其妙(莫明,我真的没有说你莫名其妙的意思~),因为我在几乎没有任何有效input的情况下,居然在semantic的层面恶意揣测了一个非我母语的语言的引伸意味 -- it doesn't make sense,因为逻辑上讲不通了 讨论这种事情挺好的,让大家都能发表一下自己的观点。但如果谁还想做些类比,最好注意以下几个事情:1,听者和说者是否同母语?谁有能力定义词义? 2,词汇中是否有字面上的恶意?好比“土包子” 3,此词汇是否有历史污点?好比说“china man”
  • Ms. Stephanie
    Ms. Stephanie wrote:
    @DA FAN “九浅一深”“十深” 这些都没看懂。 就从这句话开始我觉得我特别愿意和你做朋友“你要5分钟完事儿咱就5分钟,你要2小时完事儿咱就2小时。总之一切随你,质量有保障,用过的都说好:D ” 哈哈哈。。 kidding..
  • Amalie Sæverud

    我想可能是因为在中国90%的情况下,外国人都被称为老外,所以按照概率: 被叫老外和发生不好的状况的情况也比被叫其他称谓发生不好情况的时候多! 但是人都倾向于遗忘或忽略一般的状况和好的状况而牢记不好的情况。可能是因为这个原因吧!

    呵呵 ,还是不为自己辩护了!在多数情况下,我在脑海里反应出“外国人”这个词时,nothing happens;但是当我在脑海中反应出“老外”这个词时,明显感觉心跳有稍稍加快,瞳孔有稍稍变大,心理有少许做坏事的欲望,or it's just me?

    所以我建议,为了更好的解决这个问题,我们可以引进一台人体状况监测仪。 然后招募广大志愿者来测试,测试在说出“老外” 和“外国人”这两个词时,心跳和瞳孔的变化。这样可以更科学的辨明这个词是有力词还是一般词; 然后再测试受试者在听到或说出这两个词时,大脑核磁共振图的活动部位,就可以看出这个词是激起了人的那个情感部位的反应,是恐惧,兴奋,性奋,还是高兴。。。?

    我觉得这个词还是比较给力的,但是也许是好的方向哦!

  • Yuki Inés
    Yuki Inés wrote:

    1,词源学上说,China本身就是一个极不友好的词,有殖民色彩。

    2,所以如果我不想让人家叫我Chinita,可能么?我心里纠结了很多历史的哲学的人文的什么破感受,结果别人叫我Chinita,我不爱听,我不乐意,可是在当别人不单没有恶意,反而是表示亲昵的情况下,这种反感有意义么?

    3,涉及到底语言是属于谁,谁来定义的问题,是很复杂的。因为语言是属于被说的人的,但是话语是属于沟通的两者的,本来在两种语言之间,误读就是无所不在的。极端的例子:l我可能就叫你的名字,你都觉得有恶意~~~这种情况下,怎么判定?无法。

    PS,歧视很大程度是社会关系决定的,不是你一句两句话就能把它们给歧视了。不管喜欢不喜欢,大部分外国人(外国长相的人)在中国众所周知有一定程度的特权、眼球权和流言蜚语权,就这种环境下一个不太一样的称呼都能让你感觉不高兴,我就不明白你去了世界别的地方能有多高兴了。

  • Da Fan
    Da Fan wrote:
    @Ms. Stephanie, 嗯,我知道你们姑娘都有一颗渴望靠谱儿外加小邪恶的心,嘿嘿。 @The Late$, 真的,你该去读博士,真的。你说的这种研究方法确实在各个学科被广泛地应用着 @Yuki,大姐吉祥!
  • Minger
    Minger wrote:

    @Despien, 你说得太好。赞。

    ”俺觉得,很多国人讨论这个词喜欢说:‘我觉得这个词挺好的,我觉得没问题’。问题是,这不是“你‘觉得如何的问题,而是’他‘是否感觉好的问题。“

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    Hahahaha ... again, the two words for 莫明 to ponder are "shove" and "force" ...

  • Minger
    Minger wrote:

    DD, ok, I finally get it. Shall we all just regress into the usual sexual depravity then?

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    Hahahahaha ... I was going to say "rape" ... does that fit?

  • Minger
    Minger wrote:

    No, neither does "force", which is why it took me a while. You need to study your Mandarin tones :-P

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    Hahahahaha ... as observable as ever ... my Mandarin has TOO much room for improvement :)

  • Minger
    Minger wrote:

    Actually, on second thought I think I had no idea what you're talking about. I initially thought "退避". but now I think ”装逼“. At least that would make tonal sense (as if I can hear them in the first place).

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    Hahahaha ... huh? So you have so totally lost me now ...

  • Ejdnzlaj
    Ejdnzlaj wrote:

    My Chinese is nowhere near good enough to say what I want to so I'll have to use English but:

    Over the past century in the west, and only really the last 30 years, society has changed and calling people by their ethnicity has become something incredibly taboo. So hearing a word that does this, even when it's not me that's being referred to makes me really uncomfortable because in my culture it's not the correct thing to do.

    However, I quickly learnt just why that's the case. To have someone refer to you as 老外 or even 外国人 isn't pleasant no matter how much you know they are just being friendly or have no malice. It doesn't matter about the intent because it's really uncomfortable to be directly reminded that you are an outsider. People might think they are being nice when they say it, but what they are doing (even if they don't mean it) is saying: "you're not one of us"

    On top of this, you not only directly exclude me from being part of Chinese society by thinking of me as an outsider, but you've also completely whitewashed my own cultural identity with the blanket term "foreigner". You've just told me that where I come from doesn't matter to you. As far as you are concerned I'm an American or something but it doesn't really matter. I mean, how would you feel if you were outside China and everyone kept on calling you Japanese or Asian, but then when you told them you are Chinese they just say: "Well it doesn't matter, you all have the same face anyway". This is basically what 老外 and 外国人 say.

    On top of this, being called 老外 or 外国人 is pretty dehumanising. It makes you feel like you're not really an individual, you're just 外 and all 外 is the same. It doesn't let you have a personality or be yourself because the person who has used it has already just summed you up in two or three sylablles: "outsider". You've just been told you are an outsider and that no matter what you do, nothing is going to change the fact that deep down for that person, you are just an outsider.

    So yeah, I understand that people aren't being malicious about it when they use it. I'm not saying that people are saying all this stuff to me intentionally. I know they're not really aware fo the fact they are saying it, but people need to understand that it's easy to feel alone and out of place on the other side of the world and to have everyone directly remind you of it every time they address you isn't nice. Especially when they just reduce you to being an outsider instead of an actual person. Even if they don't mean to.

  • Ejdnzlaj
    Ejdnzlaj wrote:

    P.S. My point is, this is why we've done our best to do away with referring to people by their ethnicity in the West. We live along side a lot of people form all over the world who've emigrated and aren't just visiting, they live there, so it's become a faux pas to make them feel excluded from the society they are living and taking a direct part in.

  • Simen Stensvoll
    我觉得老外管姑娘叫chicks那才歧视呢
  • Ms. Stephanie
    Ms. Stephanie wrote:
    sigh... Let's trying to remeber everybody's name in the first time ba... just call names ... Would anybody been punished by pronouncing them wrongly? That's totaly confused then.
  • Ejdnzlaj
    Ejdnzlaj wrote:

    @Minimy
    I agree.

    @Ms. Stephanie
    Don't build a straw man. That's not what I meant. There are lots of things you can call anyone, no matter where they are from and don't make people uncomfortable. For example: 朋友

  • Ms. Stephanie
    Ms. Stephanie wrote:
    叫朋友太傻了。我还是喜欢叫名字。比如:Kieran. 叫朋友未免对姑娘们来说太爷们儿了。。。 希望你能看懂。。。
  • Ejdnzlaj
    Ejdnzlaj wrote:

    看懂了,觉得我曲你前的意思。以为你说:“记得每个人的名字太难了!所以老外很好”

  • NN
    NN wrote:

    Our folks here call them GuiLo鬼佬 instead of Laowai,and this have been called for a long time.I think is because in the very beginning,when the people saw there comes the strangers with blond hair,green,grey or blue eyes,white skin etc,totally different from Asians..Im afraid to say maybe people thought their appearance look like ghost! :)

    So far,I havent hear any complain from my guilo friends,say we hate your chinese people call us guilo,however they even call or tease themself by guilo,some people did it.

     

  • Minger
    Minger wrote:

    Kieran, ironically, your argument is the same as the one used by people insisting they're right to use the word however they want. They don't have an immigrant culture, so they will always and only see us as "wai". (The term does not mean "foreigner". Seriously, what the hell does it even mean? Black people + white people + Middle Eastern people? How does that make more sense than just calling us by our fucking colors? Jesus, you can tell 韩国棒子 from 日本鬼子, when they are not genetically different from Chinese citizens, but you can't tell black from brown? Really?)

  • Minger
    Minger wrote:

    N, 很多人也喜欢用”黑鬼“这歌词,但是我不建议你去用它。

  • Ekki
    Ekki wrote:

    屌。。

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    Hahahahaha ... being the stupid one ... I am slow and had only realised one thing ... for both Korean and Japanese, whichever way they are "nicknamed", the word 外 is not associated with them ... 

  • Minger
    Minger wrote:

    DD, that's because they're both part of China, of course.

  • Ejdnzlaj
    Ejdnzlaj wrote:

    The thing I find weirdest about people getting defensive about saying 老外 is, when else are you apparently in the wrong by being offended?

    I mean, if you said to your friend "Hey! You're fatter now, you have such a baby face!" then your intentions aren't bad, but if they get upset you're not going to go on about how they're not supposed to be upset.

  • Da Fan
    Da Fan wrote:

    如果是Kieran的逻辑,那我非常明白,而且很同意,也很理解。从一开始我就在想,为什么外国人不喜欢被称为“老外”?如果是因为他们觉得别人这么叫他,是把他当成外来人,而不是自己人,于是感觉不好,make sense。但如果他非觉得这个词儿有歧视或恶意,那就很奇怪,不make sense。

    后来莫明也说了,这事儿很ironical。其实逻辑就是这样的,这真的就是移民国家和非移民国家的区别。但起码在中国,现在的中国,大多数人还并不是那么排外,起码表面上不是。而这个逻辑,并没有好坏之分。在世界大同之前,现实就是如此,且这个还真和这个国家的经济文明发展水平无关,也就是说,是否应该把外国人当成外国人,这背后有的只是不同国家的不同的人的个人观点,而并没有一个universal truth。好比说我想来认为日本的经济、文明、礼仪、教育水平等方面都比美国强,但有机会你们可以去感受一下,你在日本,“外国人”的标签贴得是多么地牢固。而在最大的移民国家美国,一个immigrant实质上受到的不公平待遇,受到的排外待遇,一点儿也不少。当然了,美国人从小被教育要being nice,面子上过得去,但政策很明白:同等工作机遇,优先雇佣citizen。

    当然了,在中国的外国人还是可以因为被叫“外国人”,“老外”而抱怨,只不过需要想清楚一点,这个事情没什么对或错,只是你自己不喜欢。同时你要意识到,在如此一个对外国人从里到外都友善的地方,在一个如此好赚钱的非移民国家,就这点儿事儿也值得?看看没落的欧洲是如何排外地吧,看看北美是如何假惺惺地吧,唉~  洗洗睡吧都

  • Ms. Stephanie
    Ms. Stephanie wrote:

    没错儿,洗洗睡吧。 爱TMD who who who 。。。 擦。。累不累。。。

     

    下次叫我中国鬼子。。I love this one... lol

  • Ejdnzlaj
    Ejdnzlaj wrote:

    Da Fan, 我对大部分你说的话同意。但以为你也许误解我想表达什么。你说对了当然是自己不喜欢,但我就想给别人阐明,解释为什么不喜欢。我自己知道不表达歧视或恶意。但如果我想你别叫我老外,有什么问题?我听就让我不舒服。我就想说请对得起我, 理解我不喜欢还有别叫我老外。我离你很远,你可以说什么,对我没有影响。

  • 事与愿违
    事与愿违 wrote:
    不喜欢老外,那老美、老英。。。怎么样?
  • Ejdnzlaj
    Ejdnzlaj wrote:

    如果你不知道我的名字那先生,朋友,哥们都可以。

  • Ekki
    Ekki wrote:

    how about 少外?少内?

  • Ejdnzlaj
    Ejdnzlaj wrote:

    如果你想叫我老外,我想叫你亚洲人。这个词比老外好,比较对地理 精确

  • 事与愿违
    事与愿违 wrote:
    先生不合适,哥们是男的叫的,那好吧,下次叫朋友吧
  • Da Fan
    Da Fan wrote:

    Kieran, 你也许也误解我的意思了。我当然理解你不喜欢别人当面叫你老外了,你自然有抱怨的权利。我要说的是,如果一个人明知道你不喜欢他叫你老外,他还这么叫,那么这是他的错儿。但很多中国人使用“老外”这个词儿,以至于背后的对于“外国人终究是外国人”的观念,你根本谈不上是对还是错。另外,我说什么,基本上和我自己怎么做也没有太大的关系。我确实不怎么用老外这个词儿,同时我也是始终心向世界大同的。

  • 事与愿违
    事与愿违 wrote:
    叫亚洲人,那范围也太广了吧。那是不是也可以叫你美洲人或欧洲人?
  • Ejdnzlaj
    Ejdnzlaj wrote:

    如果我不知道的人叫我老外,还让我不舒服,但没有问题。我只可以给他们阐明我不喜欢。

  • Ekki
    Ekki wrote:

    你们太无聊了吧?

  • Ejdnzlaj
    Ejdnzlaj wrote:

    我是老大无聊爷

  • Ekki
    Ekki wrote:

    啥意思啊,大爷?

  • Ejdnzlaj
    Ejdnzlaj wrote:

    我还不会用中文开玩笑 55555555 想说: I'm grandpa 无聊

  • Ekki
    Ekki wrote:

    哦,你是说你是无聊大爷。。哈哈哪确实是很无聊!

  • Ejdnzlaj
    Ejdnzlaj wrote:

    是不会开玩笑的无聊

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    Hahahaha ... someone said "grandpa"? Other than my age ... well ... anyway ...

    Host: My friend, I have ordered my favourite for you, Sweet and Sour Pork
    Guest: I am sorry, but I am Muslim, and I dont eat pork
    Host: But it is really very tasty (still very friendly)
    Guest: I dont eat pork (trying to be nice)
    Host: My friend, I ordered it because it is really tasty, and I want you to try it (not too friendly now)
    Guest: ....

    Kieran wrote (Posted 9 hours ago)

    The thing I find weirdest about people getting defensive about saying 老外 is, when else are you apparently in the wrong by being offended?

    Try this:

    Mother: stop staring at people, it is not nice
    Kid: no mom, but that man has golden hair
    Mother: so?
    Kid: He is different from other people

    Q: can we say the kid is wrong? He is just, well, a kid ...

  • Minger
    Minger wrote:

    Uncle D, I smile and say knee how to the kids who do it. After all, they're kids. I know that the adults who do it are peasants with the mentality of children, but somehow I can't bring myself to be as friendly to them since they have the gall to wear suits.

  • Desipen
    Desipen wrote:

    其实被这个词称呼的朋友还是很介意这个词的,无论有多少朋友说明用这个词是不分中外的,这就是一个问题了。如果你善意或中性地使用一个词却让另一部分人感受不到这种友好甚至感受到的是一种区别对待的话,就好比一户人家倾家荡产地买猪肉馅的饺子招待回民一样,你的这种善意或中性简直就是不值一钱。

    当然,我们可以说对得起自己的良心来安慰自己没有恶意,但既然你想用“老外”这个称呼,就说明你想表达某种内容,就是想让别人明白你的某种意思,如果不需要别人明白,你完全可以在内心默默地表达你的“善意”。

    我没想到这个问题居然还有这么大反响,我以为是个过时的问题呢。这只是我在一秒钟内选定的一个能让我说点啥的题目,非常非常即兴,但反应有点让我觉得意外。

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    Hahahahaha ... 莫明 ... and morning to you too ... as we walked past Regent on our way to work this morning, we noticed a lot of people wearing suits too, and my wife giggled and said that they looked like penguins ... penguins that wont let Chinese (perhaps Asian in general) walk past the driveway, but wont stop people who dont look Chinese ...

    Desipen 。。。哈哈哈,我个人觉得,其实国内有很多类似的所谓"小问题",只是没有人会正视,到有人提出来了,或变成大问题了,就会有很多声音了。。。

  • Da Fan
    Da Fan wrote:
    甭意外,这样挺好的,多热闹啊。还有,回民那个比喻依然是个逻辑不成立的false analogy~ 具体原因懒得说了。 总结一下吧:我从来没有质疑过一个人表达自己不喜欢听什么的权利,我也向来认为当一个人已经明确表达他不喜欢什么的时候,别人应该尊重。我想问的只是一个:为什么不喜欢听?如果是觉得这个词儿有贬义,那根本说不通,因为任何人都没有揣测非你母语的一门语言中的词汇的词义层面的意味的能力。注意,并不是没有这样的权利,而是没有这样的能力。现在事情搞清楚了:外国人是在介意中国人始终把他们当成外来人。这种说法make sense,绝对make sense,然后我想说的就是,就算注意这个事情,也只能是流于表面。就算不叫你“老外”,该不带你玩儿的时候还是不带你玩儿。这就是所谓“在人类大同实现之前”,实质上改变这一点,只能是我们的一个小梦想。而形式上和实质上,我确实还真没找到世界上哪个国家能做得更好的。嗯,就是这样了~
  • Minger
    Minger wrote:

    DD, I agree there is a lot of bias in favor of white people in China in general. It sometimes takes us a while to notice it, because we think of it as basic human treatment anywhere else. We don't typically like that bias either. Won't it be nice when people can start treating people like people?

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    Hahahahaha ... yeah, wouldn't it be nice? and I cannot help it but think of this song ... a bit too old perhaps :)

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    ...

    Hahahahaha ... if the link above does not work, maybe try this other one :)

  • Ms. Stephanie
    Ms. Stephanie wrote:
    我试图不过来看,但是我又好奇大家说什么。好讨厌啊!能不能让这个帖子沉了!?
  • Ejdnzlaj
    Ejdnzlaj wrote:

    Da Fan, I'm not sure if I understood what you said entirely. Lots of words I've never seen before! Again, I can't say what I want to in Chinese.

    What came first, the chicken or the egg? It's not important, one leads to the other. Here, laws were passed to make women equal with men in the work place. They are still not completely, but with every year it gets better and better because people understand it and believe in it now. You can not say that not wanting or needing to use the word must come first. The word can go first, then the deeper understanding.

  • Da Fan
    Da Fan wrote:
    I'm sure I understand what you said entirely, and I 100% agree with it. actually what I said at the very beginning is just to tell ppl that considering "laowai" a derogatory word doesn't make sense. However, later I said that considering "laowai" a word that reflect ppl's attitude of taking you as an outsider does make sence. My will go far beyond this, as said in other places, I even don't like the concept of "country", but practically, all you can do is just to tell others you don't like this, you don't like that, but not arguing if it's right or wrong, wise or stupid in such an "undeveloped" world. Besides, a much more important thing is, when complaining sth, try to examine whether you did or will do things with same nature that analogically make sense. In a word, we all want a better world, but I thing the best approach to realize it is to regulate yourself, but not just keep on complaining about what others do, coz it's possible that the your intention of complaining is "tricky". Well, complaining or advocating things which are not a direct reflect of your personal experience/feeling, maybe it's only my ideal will~ Well, now this topic is not interesting at all, next :)
  • Minger
    Minger wrote:

    troll

  • Ejdnzlaj
  • Liza PI
    Liza PI wrote:

    这没什么不好 就是一种称呼 就像叫你外地人一样 本无歧视!

  • xxxxxxxx
    xxxxxxxx wrote:

    I personally think the term "Laowai" is derogatory, xenophobic, rude and disrespectful PERIOD. no one would be happy to be reminded every time they step outside that they are an "outsider", "foreigner", "they don't belong here", "they are different". Try shouting "hey foreigner" at a Chinese person in the US, i don't think they would be happy and you might end up getting your A** whooped.

    Furthermore, I know for a fact that China suffers from major xenophobia even within the country itself, for instance Beijingers are always blaming anything bad on waidiren.....

  • 王经纬
    王经纬 wrote:

    同意Liza!;

    {老外}是{外国人}的口语形式!这个词本身是中性的。具体有没有歧视的感觉,完全要看当时的语境和情形!你可以把它用成褒义,也可以用成贬义!此语言的使用者是不会因为某些人听着不爽,就放弃使用这个词的!况且,这个词从多数母语者的角度被看做是中性。真正歧视性的词汇是{鬼子},或者广东人的词{鬼佬}!更给力!您当然可以抗议,但是其实找错对象了!兄弟!那个真是中性词汇啊!阿弥陀佛!

    叮当说的 Ching Chong China Man !挺逗的、!我的澳洲学生告诉我的:

    ching chong China man went to milk a cow

    ching chong China man doesnt know how

    ching chong China man got wrong tit

    ching chong China man got covered by shit!

    我这个澳洲学生很调皮,本想说这个来气我。但是我一点也不生气,反而觉得这个顺口溜很有创意,很Q,很押韵!他对Ching chong China Man 已经很善良了!他给我讲过他自己的征服和统治世界的计划,还有对某些会赚钱的,不信某位神的种族的镇压和屠杀计划!!等等。咻!我松了一口气!就covered by shit一下,不要太友好哦!人家那边都被有计划的屠杀了呢!要啥自行车啊!said 老赵!

     

    跑题了!回来,回来!

    有些案例是很搞笑的!汉城硬要改名叫首耳!!您管我们怎么叫呢!况且,这名还是他们以前自己起的,自己选的那俩汉字!徐子东还讲过那个笑话!自从首耳改名后!各国政府纷纷要求中国官方改变他们名字的汉译!俄罗斯英文名字是Russia, 以后中文名字叫{如霞},充分体现了{信,达,雅}的翻译原则,诗情画意,令人如痴如醉!日本的英文名字是Japan,以后中文名字叫{甲片},发音贴切,传音又传神!

  • 王经纬
    王经纬 wrote:

    “我个人不认为Chinaman, colored people, 甚至连negro本身有什么报的意思。但是,只要人家不喜欢听,我就不乱说。”

     

    其实这段很有道理的!

    但是问题在于,适用于一个地方的逻辑和道理,不一定适用于另外一个地方!比如有的国家是不能吃狗肉的,但是在另一些国家,吃狗肉是OK的。当这些不吃狗肉,但是吃牛肉或者羊肉的人在说那些吃狗肉的人多可恶的时候,另外一国彻底不是牛肉或者羊肉的人,也在说他们多么的可恶!到底谁对呢??

    有人提到{世界大同}这个词!其实不是什么好事!世界大同意味着用某一个或者某几个文化的习俗和逻辑来定义和支配其他所有不同文化里的人,或者来自某个,某些文化的理念多数情况下挑战和排斥他者的文化习俗。首先是丑化,妖魔化他者,充分体现排他性,(这个是某某有长期inquisition历史的文化比较擅长的,当然这种事哪里都发生过,但是人家就是做得巧妙,做得彻底,不由得你不心中产生暗暗的佩服,哇靠!)然后用各种手段,媒体的,经济的,武力的等等逐步摧毁某些他者文化,或者用很叉叉的手段逼迫他者走下坡路,同时自己从中收益巨大!当今世界的形势下,这种手段更是被运用得炉火纯青!巧妙自如!

    相对世界大同!还是求同存异!相安无事和平些吧!阿弥陀佛

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