Discussion » Current Events » Wikileaks

  • Oliver Blokland
    Oliver Blokland wrote:

    Has the world seriously gone crazy... 

    I mean who thought we'd see the day people would be afraid to speak out.. I just created a " People should not be afraid of their governments " group on facebook. soz WLIB..

     

    Now I know it should be fine..freedom of speech and all but I'm actually a little scared and even tho it's probably unfounded.. SWAT teams are not gonna jump through my door... it's crazy to even have a tinge of that...


    I praise the Chinese Government they might be messed up and do things in secret like all Governments do ..but atleast there open about it .. better the devil you know than the devil you dont..

    Why other Governments think they need to hide it I don't know..?

    V for Vandetta : V: "People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people" 

    p.s. just closed my Amazon account :D

  • Joakim Berg Solum

    You do realize that every government needs to keep secrets of some sort right? And that leaking certain sensitive information which affects government policies is considered treasonous, no matter which country you are in?

    Cheers to PayPal for cutting off wikileaks funding BTW. Nothing but a bunch of cockbags...

  • pommie
    pommie wrote:

    "I praise the Chinese Government they might be messed up and do things in secret like all Governments do ..but atleast there open about it"

     

    Haha! I read somewhere the other day that dichotomies are popular with stupid people because they allow someone to say something absolutely retarded while giving the impression they just said something deep.

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    @Gu,

    U MAD?

    Technically, it's only treason if you betray your own country. Julian Assange is engaged in espionage.

    Sexy platinum waves of espionagehulahgHULAGHULAGHULAGH WAIT. What?

    Uh

    Yeah.

    I've got mixed feelings about Cablegate. This isn't nearly as subversive as, say, the Pentagon Papers. It's just a bunch of bitchy chatter between diplomats. It's merely an embarrassment, not a clear threat to national security.

    People calling for Assange's arrest and/or death are just feeding the cult of personality he's so eager to cultivate. In this light, maybe Cablegate is just PR move to make WikiLeaks a household name.

    In any case, I wholeheartedly support WikiLeaks in principle. It's got the potential to be an enormously useful tool for journalists and human rights activists, who constantly face problems when governments--authoritarian and democratic alike--attempt to bully them into revealing confidential sources under the auspices of fighting terrorism or defending this vague and ill-defined quality of national security.


  • Joakim Berg Solum

    Er, yeah you're right. It's not treason for them, it's just treason for the dudes in the US who leak them the info.

    You're right though. In theory, they represent certain principles of free speech and whatnot, but realistically... I say burn those motherfuckers at the stake.

  • Simen Wangberg

    Sadly, I'm pretty sure the whole mess will just make the governments in question even more duplicitous and shady. Like they realize that their shit wasn't corked tightly enough so now they're gonna put the screws on it. Maybe.

    Or even worse, they could feasibly use this to justify legislation that curtails freedom of speech on the Interwebs or something along those lines. That would be a wompers.

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    @Gu,

    How is it realistic to suggest we kill anyone who poses a threat to US national security interests, no matter how poorly those interests are expressed, or by whom? I dare say you're starting to sound like a fair-weather libertarian. I don't think you were entertaining motions to burn down the White House when the Bush Administration revealed the identity of that CIA operative.

    Don't push that ideal left/real right bullshit dichotomy around me, either. I don't give a shit about the ideal of freedom of speech if it serves a real utility, such as the case of WikiLeaking as a check-and-balance against a military-industrial complex that clearly can't be brought under control through presently available democratic means.

    The US is involved in two bogus wars it shouldn't have started in the first place. We're still in Iraq and Afganistan even though we elected the communist Muslim who wants to drink the spinal fluid of all the Christian fetuses. And it's hilarious to me that for all the inchoate anti-government ramblings of right-wingers, that when someone finally does put the screws to the commie buttfuckers in the U.S. State Department, the tea party rednecks get all pissed off because a faggy-looking European antiwar type beat them to the punch.

    Troll on, Assange.

  • Minger
    Minger wrote:

    Does anyone remember way back in 2003 when Lewis "Scooter" Libby took the fall for leaking classified information, the CIA operative status of Valerie Plame Wilson, to the press? He was sentenced to 30 months in prison, but Bush commuted his sentence within a month of sentencing.

    Bradley Manning is the U.S. army analyst who has been alleged to have leaked the cables to Wikileaks. It seems to me that, if he is convicted of related offenses, Obama should commute his sentence as well. Whereas the disclosures made by whoever Libby took the fall for served only to endanger a government agent, the disclosures allegedly made by Manning have disclosed murders and other unconscionable illegal actions by U.S. military. If for no other reason than respect for the common law system, where courts look to precedent to determine how the law should be applied, it seems that Obama should look to Bush for precedent as to how sentencing should be commuted.

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    "Does anyone remember..."

    I did. Ergo, the link in my previous post.

    Obama just distributed his first group of presidential pardons, to little fanfare and even less effect. Given how he's so willing to kowtow to the increasingly batshit crazy GOP, I highly doubt he'll flout popular outrage and pardon Manning.

  • Minger
    Minger wrote:

    Dando, you remembered too slowly for my refresh.

    I am really disapointed in Obama having no stones. Everyone knew he was a closet republican anyway.

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    Barack Obama makes Bill Clinton look like Leon Trotsky.

  • Joakim Berg Solum

    Am I a fair weather libertarian? I almost did vote for Ron Paul... but then wondered why I should bother voting for a guy who is clearly not even in the running. And I get most of my political views from motherfucking Jack Bauer.

    And yes, if they ever shut down my PayPal account, I fully realize that I'll be posting on the internet complaining about it, even though I'm praising them for shutting down Wikileaks account right now.

    Sorry, not much argument from me on this side. I'm not knowledgeable enough in these matters to pretend to be able to talk on the same level w/ you about it... so on that note, Jack mother fucking Bauer!

  • 随便叫兽
  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    @Gu,

    Sorry. I was projecting phantasmal animosities with that fair-weather libertarian bit.

  • 外交猫
    外交猫 wrote:

    All of you are convinced that these WikiLeaks documents are bad for US national security, harmful to its international reputation, reveal all sorts of criminal behavior, and otherwise are a huge embarassment.  Clearly you haven't been paying attention. 

    According to Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Vladimir Putin, Silvio Berlusconi, portions of the Afghan government, the entire population of Pakistan, and many Chinese netizens, the US government OBVIOUSLY secretly released these documents on purpose as part of a massive conspiracy to make other people look bad.  You guys are just too blinded to see the obvious plot at work here. WikiLeaks is just another tool of American interests.

    Thankfully we have geniuses like those listed above that have been able to recognize the truth.

  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:

    There was a second shooter leaker.

     

     

     

     

    ALIENS.

  • Pavoir Sponse
    Pavoir Sponse wrote:

    Well Ethan, it could easily be that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Vladimir Putin, Silvio Berlusconi DO already "look bad", so they are projecting a smokescreen of their own.

     

    I am not averse to the odd conspiracy theory, but Assange as puppet of the CIA (isn't everyone these days) is a little reductive to me, or am I just "too blinded to see the obvious plot at work here."

     

    One of problems with much of the the analysis of Wikileaks is that commentators are analysing this shit as if it all part of a government policy or strategy. Diplomats et al say all manner of things in private (and public) that are essentially flimflam, opinion, gossip if you will.

     

    This is further compounded by the fact that Diplomats are exactly that, Diplomats. They, more than many other groups, are for more compelled to have to say things they don't remotely believe.

     

    A Chinese official cabling a U.N diplomat to say that China is on the brink of accepting Korean reunification could be a real game changer but it could equally be a Chinaman telling a Yank exactly what he wants to hear for any number of purposes.

  • 外交猫
    外交猫 wrote:

    Just to be clear, I was being sarcastic.  Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Vladimir Putin, Silvio Berlusconi, portions of the Afghan government, the entire population of Pakistan, and many Chinese netizens, are collectively (and maybe in reverse order) the least credible, least believable, least rational, and most useless sources of analysis on the face of the earth.

    But it's true that they have all come out spouting some nonsense about a US conspiracy.

    I think it speaks volumes that an event like this WikiLeaks dump, wherein 99% of the content is embarassing or dangerous to the US (or other countries) still inspires conspiracy theories inside countries wherein only 1% of the documents make them look bad.  As if the US would destroy it's reputation abroad just to get a few files out there that maybe hurt China a tiny little bit.

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