Discussion » Beijing Life » rant and rave

  • Jimi
    Jimi wrote:

    Buying a home in China has never been so difficult.  For myself it is not a very big deal because I told myself a very long time ago that the housing prices are not worth what you get for the "way overpriced" places for sale.

    Even at 3-5000 rmb per sq meter these apartments are not worth to buy because of so many reasons.

    today, in BJ, the average is about 20,000 per sq meter. and if you are single you can get a smaller place but most people here will be married and have a child eventually so they require a place about 100 sq m. That's 2 million rmb.

    I don't know about you guys and what you make but from my information most people earn about 3-5000 rmb a month here. some less, some more.

    Do the math.  First how long would it take you to save the 400,000 rmb required from the bank before get a loan for the other 1.6 million?


    then you have a mortgage for the next xx amount of years.

    do the math. anyone with a low salary would not be able to find the time in their lives to pay it back.

    how could they?

    and then!!

    buildings here dont last very long. maybe 20-30 years? tops right?

    right! and then on top of that there is some rule that maybe the house wont belong to your family after you die.

    so why are you all struggling so much to buy something?

    you are just working for an APARTMENT that will not be yours in the end and will be torn down eventually.

    do you think it is really stable to buy somethign that is equal to LEGOS?

    bulidings snapped together by large kids playing games with peoples lives.

    Those real estate developers, real estate agents.....wo cao.


    everytime i walk past a real estate agent office(many) i speak thief under my voice.

    the gap between rich and poor in China is becoming more and more evident and is growing.

    I am sorry to say this but this type of thing makes my stomach turn blue when i think of long term plans here.

    for me its not so bad because i can easily afford renting a place here but all my chinese friends who were not lucky enough to get something from their parents are screwed.

    some of my chinese friends have to put out 80% of their salary each month for a small place and in the end. theywill not own it in the long run.

    disgusting method.


    we all know who formulated this plan and i find it to be very very risky and quite pathetic. because I believe most, if not all, Chinese people believe that they should marry and have a kid. and they also believe that without a house a family has no stability. That is true. and its not a bad thing to do those things.

    but the pressure on people to buy because of that is enough to make anyone drink AJAX.

    Now I can see why people do what they do here. Always trying to make an extra mao here and there. and probably doing many things making it under the table so nobody knows about it.

    And yet another thing...

    I could be wrong about this but i think its correct. That females tend to put all the pressure on their men to come up with a plan to earn this type of money. some do not but some do. and to those who expect your man to earn this type of money i need to say...

    shame on you. how dare you put that type of pressure on someone and expect him to do that.  you know very well that most people in this world could not ever buy an APARTMENT here. its just unfair to expect a man to earn that kind of money.

    i have heard some many girls/women talk about "I dont want to work, I want to stay home." Well thats fine! Stay home but if you expect him to earn that kind of money, and you keep your ass in front of your QQ or tv while he kills himself in the office then you are nothing more than a lazy ass golddigger.

    next page

  • Jacopo DR
    Jacopo DR wrote:

    Life in China is unfair

    where is it fair?

  • Nadia Scheie
    Nadia Scheie wrote:

    swizeland? hehe~~

    highlight the "wo cao"~~~

    when i was reading....it was soooo vivid shown up~~~

    China not a good topic for talk~~~whatever~~~

    my shadow drifted across

  • Joakim Berg Solum

    Why is it supposed to be fair? Not everyone can contribute equally to the economy and with consolidation by larger companies and with increased use of automation via computers and robots, low skill labor just isn't worth that much anymore. And with an increasingly growing population, even skilled labor takes a dive because more people are becoming educated.

    It's already a huge task to keep people employed enough to placate them and to keep large portions of the population out of complete and abject poverty. The dream of property ownership is just that: a dream. It made more sense with a much smaller population but in today's world, large apartment complexes with renters is a more realistic model.

    I think there will always be a gap between rich and poor, and why shouldn't there be? Some people are just worth more than others, sorry to say. Whether that's due to talent and skill or just dumb luck, that's not for us to judge, and it's not permanent. Talented poor people have a way of rising up, and worthless rich people have a way of burning themselves to the ground.

  • A豆腐
    A豆腐 wrote:

    ohh yeah, here we are, the babies from the great ´80s, feeded with all those pretty movies like The Secret of My Success,mmm.... they did a good work with our minds

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)


    Hahahaha ... as far as housing is concerned, most Chinese dont like to idea of paying rent to subsidise someone else's mortgage, my wife included, but after we worked out the maths, it was obvious that it's fairer (sorry Astaroth, just steal that word from you for a minute) to rent than to buy ...

    I had a few conversations with a few 20+ about this, and they were all concerned about the rising housing prices in BJ, but when I dug deeper, one common concern is "what if when we get older", and the way I see it, from a foreigner's point of view, is that "housing" only becomes important when we are too old to work for income ... seeing that housing in rural or second-tier or even third-tier cities are cheaper than BJ, SH, GZ etc, and most people agreed that they dont want to live in first-tier city such as BJ and SH after retirement, my suggestion, therefore, is if they rent now, save the money, and then find some other cities to live ...

    I was taught not to be concerned about "fairness", because the general rule is that the word "fair" is only spoken by people who feel that they have been disadvantaged or taken advantage of, when one is in the "advantaged" side (or position), they tend to think that everything is fair ...

    By the way, communism is an ideal that will never be realised in today's society, no matter what you are told ...



  • Joakim Berg Solum

    We should be glad that rent prices in Beijing haven't completely caught up with mortgage prices right now...

    I have a house back in Chicago right now that I paid about $235k for, although current market value is more like $180k :( Anyways, I'm renting it out for $1300 a month... and that's still about $150 short of covering my mortgage + property tax + rental license + insurance + HOA fees. Even if I were to completely pay off the bank loan so I didn't have to pay interest anymore, I'd barely even be making $600 on it... pretty pitiful for a 200k investment.

    The place I'm renting in Beijing costs 5000rmb a month. The market value for a house there is about 26,000rmb per square meter and the place is 85m, so that's 2.2 million RMB, or about $335k... Honestly, I don't know how they can afford to rent it out so cheaply.

    A $335k house or condo in Chicago would cost close to $2500 (16650rmb) a month to rent. That's a hell of a lot more expensive than 5000rmb. When the rent/property value ratio gets closer to Chicago rates, then the average working renter in Beijing will truly be fucked... Right now it ain't so bad. I know more than one person living on less than 1000rmb right now including paying for rent in a tiny ass shit hole apartment, but at least they can get by.

  • Shane
    Shane wrote:

    I'm feeling like most my posts about china have been negative lately, but it'd be a shame to break pace at this point:


    I was talking to my ex-roommate who currently bought a house while making 10,000 RMB a month. Hehad his company write a fake salary verification so that he could get a loan to buy a house, solely relying on the hope that the housing value will go up and he can sell it for more later, while he struggles to pay back the mortgage.

    I don't know a great deal about finance, but from what I understand its this kind of thing that got a lot of american banks into trouble back home.

    I wonder if these lending practices are common, and when they will catch up with the chinese economy.

  • Minger
    Minger wrote:

    Here's a good article on the Chinese housing bubble, for those who don't mind a little bit of economic data vs anecdotal "flats are expensive" evidence.


    Yes the real estate in Beijing is rediculously priced, but that's ok because no one wants it. The vast majority of the poor waidiren who have come to Beijing to make money are only hoping to invest in the bubble before it bursts. Almost no one who needs to work in this life actually wants to own a Beijing apartment long term.

    This is demonstrated by those rediculously low rent/buy price ratios that Jon mentioned. No one renting out their flat is making money by doing so. They're only holding on to it as an investment. Personally though, I wouldn't want to play this game of musical chairs.

  • 哎呀
    哎呀 wrote:

    Experts have been saying there is a bubble for years, and I'm so glad I didn't listen to them.

    After many years in China, I realize that if you want to be rich here, you have to closely follow the government, not market. You need to figure out what's government's intention right now.

    If they want you to stop investing in real estate (like at this moment), they will send signals to you (like recent policy of only allowing a family to buy one apartment in big cities such as Beijing, Shanghai, Shenzhen, Guangzhou,etc,.) When you see the signal, you need to wait, hold the investment plan for a while, until the government guides you again in near future.

  • Minger
    Minger wrote:

    Maria, when the government is telling you that the value of properties in Beijing will go up to 40,000 per square meter, it's a good sign that they want you to keep investing.

    It does not mean that it is possible to sustain the level of investment in spite of all economic indicators showing that it is unreasonable. In my opinion, they are just trying to delay the loss that will be caused when the people stop being able to make money by buying those flats.

    Rumour has it that a few months ago the banks were asked to evaluate whether or not they would remain viable if the real-estate value dropped to 60% (or maybe it was dropped by 60%). I think the banks will be ok because they actually have deposits for 30%, but I really worry about the people who have invested all of their family's savings into a Beijing flat with the intention of selling it at great profit and moving back to the countryside. I think that a lot of those people will go crazy when they find they've lost fifty years worth of wages and only have a tiny flat to show for it.

    Maria, if I had a way to know when the bubble will burst, I would be a very wealthy man. If you want to live your whole life in Beijing, I think it makes sense to own a place there. If you don't though, and if you need the money, I would get out before the market prices reaches 26k per square meter. (I know the intermediaries like to hold up signs saying 28k/ square meter as if that's a good deal, but as far as I know the actual price except right in CBD is around 16-18k.)

  • 哎呀
    哎呀 wrote:

    Then, 莫明, laugh at me after five years :-)

  • Minger
    Minger wrote:

    I'd rather smile for you in one year than laugh at you in five.

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