Discussion » Nonsense » 美国人觉得中国好可爱

  • Minger
    Minger wrote:
  • anita sønsterud
    说的是事实,只是处处都是在贬而已嘛.....美国人也挺可爱,说话不提供任何背景。张嘴就来....反正说了也是说了,你们言论最自由!!
  • anita sønsterud
    怎么会和事实无关?山姆大叔说是什么就肯定是什么,他们可不会信口雌黄呢~~~
    睡觉去了,这种东西外媒写的太多了。就象一个美国朋友说的一样,以前是苏联,后来是伊拉克,现在嘛....呵呵
  • Minger
    Minger wrote:
    Sharpay, 山姆大叔说任何对党不利的都不可能是事实!虽然我不提供任何证据,你应该相信他们说的都没有事实的基础。
    不信的话,应该装信 :-D
  • anita sønsterud
    所有的事件后果都是有根源的,说的实话没错,但是有用脑子想过其中的千丝万缕的联系么?你就不要动辄啥事都和党联系上...我不是五毛也不是党员,就别再那自娱自乐了,可能你们真的比我们中国人更了解我们国家。
  • Gøran Viken
    Gøran Viken wrote:
    他说的往往是事实。我觉得中国政府为了保持社会平安创造了个不公平的社会。政府要是不喜欢你你即使没犯法也会被抓获。反过来你要是有关系有门路就是犯法了法律也很有可能管不了。

    我固然对中国还没有完全了解但我通过跟很多中国人打交道确实感觉到了这个社会和法律制度不公平的问题。
  • Minger
    Minger wrote:
    John,你瞎说吧!我们在中国都是和谐河蟹!
    Sharpay,不可能,就是中国人了解中国。也不能说是所有的中国人,就是和党有同一个观点的中国人。虽然我不提供任何证据,你应该相信我。
    “可能你们真的比我们中国人更了解我们国家”
  • Gøran Viken
    Gøran Viken wrote:
    (haha well i want to respond but my chinese sucks)
  • anita sønsterud
    看来我需要SUN来帮我理下头绪
    我已经说了,不要拿党出来说事。我喜欢与否都没有必要在这儿说明,所以我是一个拥党还是反党你根本不知道,就尽扯那有得没得的事儿了。学了几个流行词来反讽,得瑟么?我相不相信谁我自己知道,又不是脑残,呱呱俩句我就失去判断力了?讽刺,其实记住一点就够了:中国人口过于庞大,理所当然啥样的人都有有那么大惊小怪么?只是还有很多中国人你们没有见过而已,中国的所有问题当中外国其实也着实卖了好多力吧,真心希望我们好么??呵呵
  • kö
    wrote:
    ····你们知道的太多了···(⊙o⊙)…··小心被有关部门河蟹
  • Minger
    Minger wrote:
    River crabs would be so cute if they weren't actually serious ^^
  • 哎呀
    哎呀 wrote:
    莫明,这样的文章居然没被屏蔽?真搞不懂河蟹的条件是什么?

    大部分的案例,我从未听说过,所以不知是确有其事,还是美国政府夸大其词,甚至无中生有,所以不做评论。

    对于西藏或是新疆,适当的“镇压”是应该的。一味的软弱与妥协,只会导致泰国式的混乱,所有的人都无法从中受益。

    对于文中西藏部分的描述,我深表怀疑。我在暴乱三个月后去了西藏,我亲眼看到的,亲耳听到的与文中的许多部分不符。
  • anita sønsterud
    很反感别的国家不厌其烦的来调查并定论我国的人权....damn human right,damn you!
  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:
    HAY GUISE WUTS GOIN ON HERE?
  • Mohammed Abdi
    Mohammed Abdi wrote:
    @Sharpay&Maria
    like the WWII is not enough for u.....
  • Da Fan
    Da Fan wrote:
    天朝现政府在很多方面上确实做得很差劲儿。不过,个人从来都认为,对“人权”最大的侵犯,并不是来自于独裁以及独裁体现出的种种典型的行为和现象,而是来自于打着“全球化”幌子的,以所谓“合作”为形式的资本输出、金融输出、文化输出、政治理念输出、原材料和人力资源掠夺、以及试图将他国政府“走狗化”和“买办化”。这种大规模人权侵犯的基本形式是经济文化控制,以“共同发展”为幌子输出腐败和贫穷,基本逻辑思想是“你本就一无所有,我起码能给你点儿”;这种大规模人权侵犯的高端形式是“替”他国人民打“解放战争”,人权侵犯的模式接近于无耻。

    人的本性基本上是如此,就是骨子里自私:看到自己不好别人好,自然很不爽;但一旦看到自己很好,别人好不好,或者选择性忽视,或者拿来鄙视,以此自我感觉更好。很少有人看到,全球地区发展水平不平等的历史原因和现实关联,看得到自己享受的“好”和与此同时别人承担的“不好”之间的关系----别人的“不好”到底是一种独立的事项,还是自己享受“好"的一种代价。

    希望如果中国将来发展到一定水平时,中国人都能记住这个词:代价。在享受“好”的同时,时刻能有一种意识,去审视一下,自己现在能阳春白雪般地享受“好”,在历史上,本国人民和他国人民付出了怎样的代价;在现实中,还有哪些国家的人民的“不好”与我们有着千丝万缕的联系,还有哪些国家的人民,通过承受着种种“不好”,在为我们的“好”而买单。

    看不懂的忽略,不做过多解释
  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:
    Maria,
    What makes you think the Lhasa riots and the Bangkok riots are comparable?
  • anita sønsterud
    @vancall
    你是从哪句话哪个词知道的呢?我很好奇,仅仅是因为我的辩白?
    可笑
  • 哎呀
    哎呀 wrote:
    Yes, Dando, they are not comparable in so many ways. Red Shirts only cause problem of government, at least they don’t kill innocent people, burn the shops, loot the goods, totally not like Lhasa roits.

  • Mohammed Abdi
    Mohammed Abdi wrote:
    @Sharpay
    let us not be snarky.
    i am just saying that WWII history would dawn on u about ur argument.
    if u find it offensive, pls shrug it off
  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:
    Maria,
    Actually, they burned a hospital today, according to my friend in Bangkok. Riots always cause collateral damage, regardless of people's reasons for rioting.

    Violence is inexcusable, but it can be explained. I haven't yet heard any Chinese person explain the ethnic conflicts in the West without dismissing it as separatism. But I guess I can't blame you for lacking subjective understanding of their motives, because the information simply isn't available.
  • 哎呀
    哎呀 wrote:
    "But I guess I can't blame you for lacking subjective understanding of their motives, because the information simply isn't available"

    Dando, do I mention I don't understand their motives in my posts? Why do you always twist my words in order to pander to your opinion?
  • 哎呀
    哎呀 wrote:
    By the way, how do you know "the information simply isn't available"? Have you noticed that I could read English to gather all the so called available information from outside world?

    Can you read and speak Chinese well enough to know my country? When you critisize China, have you ever realized that you may lack one channel to understand the situation compared to us?
  • anita sønsterud
    you insist to use English...cause you wanna more foreigners to join this topic,don;t you?but I'm sorry,if you can read and understand CHINESE!I would stick to say chinese,you little shit be careful what you say...nobody like wars.do not abuse and swear Chinese ppl!
    就这样的一个主题你能把我们扯到战争上面,你对政府不满就可以迁怒到整个民族?这是怎么变态和偏激的一个心态?你对我们出口不逊的时候就没有必要再给你讲什么礼节了,历来也有很多先文后武的事件,当然我一个弱女子对你也无法动武。do not be snarky??IRONIC,why should I be gentle and polite,why should I hide my true feeling??我的脾气不好就是不好,你把我惹恼了我就要生气,这是很正常的反应。我难道还要去隐藏?2战会再次来临因为我的争论??这我可就受不了了,你们不是言论自由么?我又没有像你那样胡说....虽然祸从口出,但是我知道自己在说什么。就算因为我的言论招来任何后果,我可以承担....我可不是只会说风凉话而已....
  • anita sønsterud
    不知道你是中国人还是外国人。是中国人就说中国话,别尽在那装犊子.....不过既然你还能看懂我的中文,中国人八九不离十了.....真是受不了
  • Mohammed Abdi
    Mohammed Abdi wrote:
    @Sharpay
    to be honest, i am taken aback by ur reply.
    there are tons of misunderstandings in how my remarks were interpreted.
    anyway, my bad, i am bowing out and dont lose ur cool.
  • Yuki Inés
    Yuki Inés wrote:
    These are facts.

    But what is the reality?

    You can give a list about facts of China, but for some of us, it is not the reality. Coz, facts can be choosen (you can choose A.,C,D but not fact B) , they can be used in a specific way to amplify certain points or eliminate others.

    Can telling these really trying to help things out, if the storyteller ignore the reality, and an important point, relaity is consist of different even contradictive faces and facts.

    and human rights, what a holy word. Some American is not that ignorant in this word using...I admire her, Elizabeth J. Perry, who once said there are different concepts in the word RIGHT. A bunch of people with Locke tradition takes limitation on government as right of people; they've no idea some others, like Chinese people, take collective progress (both materials or spiritual, but maybe emphasis more on the former) as RIGHTS. It is ridiculous for some judging others with their narrow minded (but unfortunately taken all the time as the solo future in this diverisified world) value.
  • anita sønsterud
    I'm kinda angry is true,but have no sense to lose my cool....if i have misunderstood,cause you insist to use english...and so bad my english is quite poor....we are unmeaning after all....
  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:
    Woah woah woah slow down, fenqing. I didn't insist that anyone use English. I'm trying my best to read the Chinese with a translation program. I just post in English because posting in Chinese is totally beyond my reach.

    I'm not expressing any opinions, yet. Just asking questions. Please don't jump to conclusions.



    Maria,
    I'm sorry, but I said subjective understanding. That is, to understand the situation from the perspective of Tibetans or Uighers, and not just the perspective of a Han Chinese person. If you say they're just killing innocent people, that tells me you don't have a subjective understanding. You're just dismissing them as being crazy separatists without considering that there might be a rational explanation for the violence.

    I said I've never heard a Chinese person give a satisfactory explanation. They just dismiss it as separatism without considering the real reasons.
  • Da Fan
    Da Fan wrote:
    ahh...I partially agree, we are just dismissing those so-called "terrorist" as being crazy antihumanist without considering that there might be a rational explanation for the violence they did in the past and are planning to do now...I've never heard a guy who define the word "terroist" give a satisfactory explanation, they just dismiss it as anti-human without considering the real reasons...
  • 哎呀
    哎呀 wrote:
    Dando, perhaps you should make it more clear about “subjective understanding” at the beginning, otherwise I will think you try to manipulate the words in order to make sense afterwards:-)

    They did kill innocent people. That’s the fact without question and it’s not related to any "subjective" or "objective" understanding.

    There are many reasons behind Tibetan and Xinjiang riots. Seeking separation is just a minor one. The MAIN cause for those roits is from economic reason just like most riots happening around the world.
  • Da Fan
    Da Fan wrote:
    “those who killed innocent ppl in Xinjiang were paid by separatists”--I personally heard such a saying from a couple of my Uyglur friends who lived in Xinjiang, even witnessed that incident when it happened.--I don't say what they told me is a "fact", but the thing that they told me this in person is a "fact", this is not from any "media", no matter "official" ones or "state-owned" ones or the so-called "independent" ones, just a FACT FYI.

    Is it the reality? I'm not bold, hehe
  • Minger
    Minger wrote:
    看这楼还没有被封锁,我就坚持用中文。看来网站的管理员只管英文话题。
    我想说一点,这可不是讽刺:任何人为了任何原因谋杀任何人都是错的。所有恐怖分子行为以及国家政府安排的暴力行为都属于这中不可接受的错。

    我写这个话题就是因为太奇怪文章怎么没有被和谐,希望不了解的人去看一眼。我没有任何批评中国人的意思,我也不觉得中国是世界上人权最差的国家。

    好了,我再戴上我“五毛党”的帽子。Maria,之所以你曾没听说文章里面很多案例就是因为美国政府从无中生有,并不可能是因为此国家把发表这样的消息的人当叛国者。怀疑这点反正已经不和谐,好恐怖!
  • 王经纬
    王经纬 wrote:
    这个东东还是蛮幽默的,老米的东西一笑而过就好了!叫什么真儿呢
  • 王经纬
    王经纬 wrote:
    就冲里面对于西藏和新疆的描述,就造成绝大多数中国人的极度反感,其结果是使更多中国人更加倾向和支持本国政府。感谢老米帮助中国搞好内部团结!阿弥陀佛
  • anita sønsterud
    那美国应该没有用暴力对待别国的公民,特人性特仁慈特道德.....没有河蟹有什么奇怪的,我们又没有说到敏感话题。这些东西本来平时大家都在说。别在那儿傻乎乎的扯什么五毛了,管人家五毛鸟事啊!~~~

    这个帖子很敏感么?也只是你提供的链接的描述跟中共想告诉国民的相逆,又不是这个帖子的事儿....
  • 王经纬
    王经纬 wrote:
    全球范围内看,目前到处杀人放火的也就老米一家了,在伊拉克,在阿富汗,基本每天都有无辜平民被杀,还有脸跟我们谈人权!米国的逻辑就是越做婊子,就越要立牌坊!世界上最邪恶的轴心国基本就长这样的。U.S.A please wipe your own arses first!! 注:不只一对儿屁屁,所以用复数!勤洗洗勤擦擦,记住口号,“洗洗更健康”
  • Minger
    Minger wrote:
    Sharpay、哪咤,都没错。美国明明是世界最大犯罪者之一。美国军队在伊拉克、日本、越南、阿富汗以及无数别的国家谋杀了无数非军队的公民。这倒是不能接受,但是这也不影响文章的内容是不是事实。

    我在中国就往往看中国的问题,同样我再英国的时候往往看英国的问题、在美国的时候往往看美国的问题。
    请不要以为因为美国国籍是我具有的国籍之一所以我就会偏爱美国。
    在最近20年我实实在在觉得中国做得比美国好,没有侵略过别的国家,抹杀的人应该比美国少。
  • Da Fan
    Da Fan wrote:
    ctrl+F, then input "so-called human rights": only one result in this thread...I agree with what you said anyway, even tho I can't find anyone in this thread was "parroting the propaganda of our fathers". Btw, what is err...propaganda? sth wrong? or sth maybe right or wrong but whatever it's right or wrong the government just use it as an excuse for what they did wrong? and what is "parroting the propaganda"? ahhh...
  • anita sønsterud
    我受不了了....什么这20年没有侵略别的国家?
    得得得,您的文章太客观了太真实了。满意了么?
  • Da Fan
    Da Fan wrote:
    OK, my understanding on the word "propagada" and "parroting" is the same, and then, I'll repeat what I said before "I agree with what you said anyway, even tho I can't find anyone in this thread was "parroting the propaganda of our fathers". "

    And, I think I use the word "so-called" with the "English version"'s meaning. I said "so-called terrorist" is half-joking: I do think they are terrorist of coz, hehe. And I said "so-called independent media", coz yeah, I do think they does't deserve the title IF the word independent got implication of a more impartial attitude. And I still cannot find anyone here said "so-called human right"...My opinion? HUMAN RIGHT is a very worthy moral imperative, but quite pathetic, it is frequently misused as a political weapon between governments.

    Ahhh...seems that I'm an anarchist...I'm not. It just I cannot find any governments in the world that are beyond the cliche of fooling its people no matter which way it uses. Of coz, there are better ones and worse ones, but simply all of them are below my "threshhold", so I simply against all of them :D
  • Jochen
    Jochen wrote:
    美国好可爱,爱至极则反,全世界的人都太爱美国了。爱的都想让他作为中国的殖民地了。
  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:
    Maria,
    I had a long post giving my two fen on territorial sovereignty, but I don't want to get the crabs in here.

    Suffice to say that my opinion on these matters isn't exactly in line with the typical American way of looking at it, either. After all, the CIA supports that old monk. They probably didn't pull the strings to get him a Nobel Peace Prize, but he's still a stooge.

    I just wish China would employ the same smart power approach to its internal issues as it does in international relations. Sometimes it seems like China serves its own people the way the US serves the Middle East.
  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:
    And I should say, even English speaking journalists and NGOs can't get the real story on the unrest in the west of China. They're not allowed in, and everyone's afraid to talk to them. Without concrete examples of discrimination toward ethnic minorities or hard facts about monks getting detained, journalists have to take shortcuts and refer obliquely to "human rights violations".
  • Vanessa Marie Ormset
    言论自由又不是随意侃大山的,美国先把自己的事管好吧!我们在改革在完善,也更和谐。
  • 哎呀
    哎呀 wrote:
    Dando, I agree with you. The government should allow foreign reporters to enter into the west of China freely. If you forbid people to seek truth, it’s natural for them to be suspicious and they just start to doubt that you may hide many dirty things.

    They made a small improvement. Reporters could enter into Xinjiang after unrest to report and interview people although many restrictions remained. Perhaps that’s part of reasons that I feel western media is more impartial to report Xinjiang riot than Tibet one.
  • 哎呀
    哎呀 wrote:
    And, Dando, you said, "Sometimes it seems like China serves its own people the way the US serves the Middle East. " Could you elaborate this remark more? How do you feel China serve its own people?

    You also said: "I said I've never heard a Chinese person give a satisfactory explanation. They just dismiss it as separatism without considering the real reasons."

    What's the explanation could satisfy you? I'm really interested in your insightful analysis.
  • 王经纬
    王经纬 wrote:
    请大家记住口号,“洗洗更健康,今天你用了吗?我们的目标是没有蛀牙,全国牙防组认可,我认可。妇炎洁!没有蛀牙”
  • JOJO
    JOJO wrote:
    一群无聊的人
  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:
    Maria,
    There's a tendency Westerners assume Islam is a hostile religion and Buddhism is a peaceful religion. And most Han people just don't give a shit about religion at all.

    I made the comparison because of a tendency of both our countries to illegally or semi-legally detain people on suspicion, with the justification that it is being done for public security. Bush sent prisoners to Guantanamo Bay and violated the Geneva conventions (his excuse: they were "unlawful enemy combatants" and not "soldiers"). Much as I like Obama, I'm not so sure that the practice has stopped completely.

    The Lhasa riots started as a peaceful protest against the detention of some monks suspected of being separatists. But it quickly got out of control, probably because of the economic issues I think you and Da Fan were referring to. And yeah, I think that's a much better explanation than "they're crazy separatists". The only reason I said that bit about lacking subjective understanding was because it seemed like you were saying that was the difference between the Thais and Tibetans (that the Thais have good reasons for rioting, but the Tibetans just want to kill Hans). My bad.

    This "Americans (or Europeans), mind your own business" shit has got to stop, though. Two wrongs don't make a right! And we're all Earthlings, anyway, so it is an affair that concerns all of . Besides, Many of the westerners who are concerned about human rights issues in China are also among the first to criticize their own governments' violations. I don't just criticize American foreign policy to please you guys. Believe me, I'm an even bigger pain in the ass when I'm in the states.
  • anita sønsterud
    faint
  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:
    Too much? Are we gonna get crabbed?
  • Minger
    Minger wrote:
    Dando, you had to bring up crap about peaceful monks being detained? Say good bye to this one... (I'm amazed it wasn't deleted immediately in the first place).

    But I totally agree with you, especially that it is our business. We live in the same world, and if you don't like what we're doing, you should try to get us to stop. Example: If the US invades a country, maybe all 3 billion people in the world who oppose what they do should say "ok, we're no longer going to buy or sell anything to or from the states until they fix themselves up." It absolutely is their business to say what we can and can't do.

    And if we don't like China polluting half the world, maybe we should stop sending our toxic, in-disposable garbage here, and not not buy things from their polluting coal powered factories?
  • 哎呀
    哎呀 wrote:
    “There's a tendency Westerners assume Islam is a hostile religion and Buddhism is a peaceful religion. And most Han people just don't give a shit about religion at all.”

    Dando, uhhh, it’s always kind of hard to catch your point. What do you mean “most Han people just don't give a shit about religion at all.” Do you mean most Han people don’t respect other people’s religious choices at all??? You better make yourself more clear before I kick your ass:-)

    Tibetan people have completely freedom of religious belief. (If you don’t believe me, go to Tibet, see it with your eyes). But there is a boundary: you can’t try to sabotage the whole countries’ unity. Any separation behavior is against our law and the government has right and responsibility to detain and question those separatists no matter you are common people or monks.

    I don’t know if anyone was detained illegally or semi- legally, maybe, or maybe not. I can’t find information from our media, nor do I trust your country's media. US government admits that Tibet is part of China, but at the same time it has been secretly supporting those exile Tibetan separatists who pursue the “Big Tibet Independence”. Your government is such a hypocritical regime in this matter. How could I believe its words about Tibet written in this Human Rights Report ? And I don’t think you should naively buy your government’s words either.

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