Discussion » Nonsense » Innovation

  • Jon Gu - 顾晓帆
    Jon Gu - 顾晓帆 wrote:
    We all hear so many times how China has 5000 years of ancient history, culture and tradition behind it that seems foreign to westerners, and yet China is becoming more and more "westernized." So many great ideas and inventions have come from ancient China (gunpowder, paper, mathematical advancements, printing, etc) and have changed the world...

    Why is it that I never hear about any new Chinese innovations today? Seems like every big thing in the modern world comes from the west. Almost everything computer/technology related (social networking sites hahaha), industrial advancements, energy, etc seems to come from America or Europe, with China being relegated to a place of cheap R&D to refine original concepts and more so, the factory where everything is produced or copied.

    With over a billion people here, where are the new ideas and inventions? Is China just too busy playing catch up to the western world to be bothered?
  • Albulena Imeri
    Playing catchup. But China is expected to innovate more in the future.
  • Hans Petter Bjørgen Hansen
    I think a large part of the reason is that the best people from other countries go to the US or Europe to study and make a career... therefore developing those technologies outside of their own country..
  • Malin Aaker
    Malin Aaker wrote:
    I don't really know cause there are 2 other interesting examples here:
    Japan, people used to say about Japan what many say about China today: they can only copy stuff, unable to innovate etc... And look now, Japan is probably one of the most innovative countries in the world. Most of the new forms of entertainment comes from there (video games). They have the most advanced robotics etc....
    On the other hand, India seems a quite innovative place even if still a completely developing country. A whole new form of financial market emerged from that country!!!!

    I'd say that due to huge inner development, so there's no real need for a company here to innovate yet.
  • Albulena Imeri
    @赛博 - Saibo:

    "A whole new form of financial market emerged from that country"
    Interesting. And would u mind to be more specific? Merci.
  • Malin Aaker
    Malin Aaker wrote:
    Most of micro-credit and micro-finance emerged from India, at least that's where it became a big thing, I'm not versed into that stuff enough to swear that it 100% comes from there
  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    There is an old Chinese saying ... 功高盖主... meaning one's work (achievement etc) is better than his/her boss (the literal meaning is "king" or "emporer") ... but that's actually a bad thing, because if your boss is jealous of you, you either get thrown out (or "execued" if in the old days) ... hence being innovative could sometimes mean trouble ...

  • Joakim Berg Solum
    Interesting point DD, hadn't thought of that before... but at least in the west, a lot of new ideas come from small start up companies where the inventor is actually the boss too, and they just get bought out by some big company that ruins everything hahaha
  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    The current gen of Chinese excels in C&M, sometimes the result is even better than the original ... one good example is the shan-zhai goods, especially the mobile phones ... some of those are now official recognised brands ...
  • wrote:
    Many reasons:
    1. China still operates in lower level industry structure.
    2. Copy means the fastest way to catch with others, but it means it will not accumulate enough talents and technology to innovate compared with Japan.
    3. No respect to technician and expert, especially, salary is a problem
    4. Twisted social value: money and power dominate the society
    5. No world famous brands

    By the way, there are some innovations in SHANZHAI goods.
  • Pavoir Sponse
    Pavoir Sponse wrote:
    Jon raises an interesting if well worn trope that is probably a little exaggerated. One has to consider China’s starting point in all this. In many ways it has had only 30 years to innovate in the way described.

    Most Western economies have had at least 60 years and they are more or less post-industrialized (which means you pretty much have to innovate). China will certainly start to catch up as it were.

    From a sociological context I would say China has certain structural problems that potentially inhibit creativity, including an incredibly rigid education system, a top-heavy political system which limits the free flow of ideas and information, as well as tradition of heavily hierarchical, Confucian relationship patterns.

    If they address some of these issues they will become a major creative force.
  • Joakim Berg Solum
    Well, on the other hand... look at the Apple iPad. It's just a big iPod Touch right? And the Shanzhai guys have already made a 10" iPod Touch lookalike before Apple even released the iPad concepts right?

    That's some innovation for ya!
  • 哎呀
    哎呀 wrote:
    Jon Gu, many reasons to cause this phenomenon. Such as:

    We don’t encourage critical and creative thinking in school. Teachers have the fixed answers and will mark the assignments and examination papers based on those answers. All we have to do is to recite them, not question them.

    No severe punishment to stop the plagiarism in academic circle.

    China does not offer a very good environment to protect the intellectual priority rights. You spend 30% of your profit on R&D, and design a fantastic product, but only after two months, you will find same products everywhere with only one third price. Who still have the urge and passion to design new things? Copying is the most economic and less risky business way in present China.

    You can download books, music, movies without paying any money from the websites or buy pirated ones from street shops in China, which seems fine for the consumers but meanwhile good books, music, or movies will disappear gradually because those artists are either change their careers or starve to death.

    And politics…
  • wrote:

    You stop think using your ideology.
    The question raised by Jon Gu is an old one, didn't you hear about Needham Problem?

    For some stupid guys using politics and any other reasons to attack China, I have to say, you are a jerk. PRC only was founded 60 years, it takes U.S. more than 200 years to catch up with Europe and then using the opportunities of world war I and II to become NO1.
  • wrote:
    ' innovation and intelligence is largely democratized."
    Shanzhai is a typical example of this cases, you slap your own face.
  • Simen Wangberg
    "You can download books, music, movies without paying any money from the websites or buy pirated ones from street shops in China, which seems fine for the consumers but meanwhile good books, music, or movies will disappear gradually because those artists are either change their careers or starve to death."

    I gotta say something about this. Humans have been creating music, sculpture, writing and other forms of art for thousands of years, long before it was possible to make money doing so. In fact, I would argue that the relative quality of books/music/movies will only increase as piracy becomes more commonplace - simply because the only people left that will create art will be the ones that do it because they love it.

    Slightly related: China Daily carried an excellent article about shanzhai innovation last summer. Check it: http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/cndy/2009-07/14/content_8424146.htm

  • wrote:
    A good paper to discuss this problem.

    I do not say ""Democratized" is a political word, you mean more distributed or less bureaucracy.

    I do not like some jerk using "plagiarism", "politics" and 'critical thinking" as excuses and connect everything with politics, which only show ignorance. These are not essential reasons, but appearances of the the lack of innovation. Soviet Union had the same political system as China, but lead in technology and science, especially in Mathematics and Physics.

    I do some research in University, I think simple reasons are most of people in China do not really like to do research, because when you compared with others people working in business and other professionals, you will live a real poor life, there is no reason for people working in high technology living in poor. The other reason is that not anyone can conduct innovation in today's fast-growing world, maybe some guys can innovate in business model (such as social network, but can you invent another better Page Rank Algorithm?), but for most people, they do not have the academic or industrial capabilities to innovate.

    I just ask one question: how many of you in WLIB have a good knowledge of Mathematics, Computer Science and other technology?

    It is hard to innovate and invent something in today's world.

  • wrote:
    As for commercial innovation in China, China lacks mature and systematic mechanism for innovation, such as financing, professionals in management and marketing, it can be easily understood that it needs long time to build such mechanism, otherwise, U.S. will lose its leadership in innovation.
  • wrote:

    "simply because the only people left that will create art will be the ones that do it because they love it. "

    In fact, I thought that is the fundamental reason why today's China lack innovation, because most of the people do not know what they like and they attribute every wrong doings to government and politics.

    Most people in China will only judge people with how much money he owns not how smart or how many contributions he gave to this country. But these stupid people will denounce the education system and the society, they forgot that it is their own reason.

    Most people in China like to put the cart before the horse.
  • 哎呀
    哎呀 wrote:
    People who lack of reasoning abilities will always use such words in their posts: “jerk, stupid, ignorant, uneducated”. They can never argue things like Mistakenforstars. They think critical thinking or plagiarism is not one of the reasons to impede the creativity, but they can never bring up any logic reasoning to back up their own argument. They just simply label you with “why connect everything with politics.” (In fact those two reasons do not exactly related to politics)

    When some foreigners say anything about China and when they think it’s a negative remark, they will jump out, and climb up a “moral” highland. They shout to them “Do not attack China!” How sly they are! They know as long as they label those foreigners with “attacking China”, they can use their hypocritical patriotic bullet to shoot them anytime they want.

    That’s why you never see them to argue things with you logically, reasonably, because they don’t know how. But they are lonely. They still want to attend the game, so they invent their own regulations to play with you. They label foreigners with “attacking China”, they label Chinese with “stupidity.” No matter what you say, they only respond you in those two ways.

    Pay attention to those people’s every post, and observe how much they would like to use this technique to argue things with other people.
  • Pavoir Sponse
    Pavoir Sponse wrote:
    Hmmm, I can't imagine who you could possibly be talking about Maria... ;)
  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:
    You meant "authoritarian," not "authoritative". You're joking if you deny the ideological baggage that comes with the term "democratized". That said, I agree with the main thrust of your argument.

    There are people in the government who fear that new technologies could threaten the party's ability to control access to information. I think we can agree that censorship and media control are terrible policies for more than purely ideological reasons. The government actively interferes in its own country's social and economic development.

    You already mentioned many reasons related to a lack of crucial institutional structures. The education system is a big part of that. Which is not to say that Chinese people are stupid and uneducated, (as you have claimed on occasion). Rather, teachers are overworked and lack many important resources, so critical thinking and original research are incredibly difficult skills to teach.

    Instead, educators have to take shortcuts, and their teaching methodologies revolve around preparing students for standardized tests. Standardized tests are a necessary evil. They are necessary for preserving meritocracy (civil service exams were part of what made China a cultural powerhouse in the old days), but placing too much emphasis on them definitely inhibits creativity.

    It's fine for mathematics and engineering. But technological innovation often requires a synthesis of many disciplines, including social science and sometimes even the humanities. Standardized tests are less precise for measuring students' achievements in these fields than, say, peer review, which is far more resource intensive.

    Furthermore, when teachers are poorly paid, they are far more likely to turn a blind eye to plagiarism.

    I used to teach rich kids who flunked the college entrance exams and were thus headed to American universities, where practically anyone (with a fuckload of money) can find a seat. And I encountered numerous bureaucratic barriers to preparing them for the academic environment there. One location I taught at was administered by Peking U, and they forbade Internet access to foreign websites.

    For political reasons.

    And I'm not even a halfway decent teacher. My friends and colleagues who actually have some talent at instruction are even more frustrated than I am.
  • wrote:
    "They think critical thinking or plagiarism is not one of the reasons to impede the creativity, "
    You finally know that plagiarism impedes innovation, but not the reason to explain why there are less or no innovations in China, can you understand the difference?

    If you understand logical reasoning, then you will not always connected anything in China with politics, it is you not me. You can do many things in China without knowing much about politics, why don't you do some innovations to prove that I am wrong?

    Will don't you invest your 4 million wealthy to others to sponsor their risky innovation? or will you try to do research in risky science projects just like many researchers in Universities and academic institutes?

    When you talked about politics in China, you should know it is Chinese government organized and invested millions dolors (yes, your taxes and contributions) to innovation projects such as 863 Project and other projects.

    I just remind some people talk with common sense.
    Do not talk like a jerk.
  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    Huh? Not sure about "jerk, stupid, ignorant" ... but "uneducated"? That's me ... huh? Dinner time ...
  • wrote:
    Dando Z,

    Sorry to reply you later.

    "critical thinking and original research are incredibly difficult skills to teach."
    You are right, it needs tradition and environment to cultivate. But it does not mean people in China do not have critical thinking. As for most Chinese Universities, they are still young and not accumulate enough traditions to lead in most scientific areas, but they are now leading in some areas such as Chemistry, or at least they can stay on the same level with the best in the world.

    "Standardized tests are a necessary evil"
    Tests are not evil unless you regard it as the only standard to judge a student.
    Some research universities in China are actively try to catch up with the leading institutes in U.S.. But it needs time and efforts, in fact, high-caliber talents are far more important than any other factors.

    U.S. give them the most attractive payments, free life and other benefits, if China can make progresses in the next few decades, I believe China can at least attract some top Chinese talents now working overseas.

    "Furthermore, when teachers are poorly paid, they are far more likely to turn a blind eye to plagiarism."
    In fact, most people in China are poorly paid, it is a big problem for China to have a fair income distribution.

    "It's fine for mathematics and engineering. But technological innovation often requires a synthesis of many disciplines, including social science and sometimes even the humanities."
    You are talking the whole social-ecosystem in China, China is still lagging behind the best in the world. But I saw many successful technological companies in China and I can expect more in the future.

    "And I encountered numerous bureaucratic barriers to preparing them for the academic environment there"
    I still believe it is the worst side of Chinese people with bureaucratic barriers, almost everyone in this country wants to benefit himself if he stay in a critical position.
  • 哎呀
    哎呀 wrote:
    I have to say, your intelligence impressed me again. I will try my best to understand your superb responding.

    I would never say you are stupid. How could I say that in front of a retarded person. It's too cruel.
  • wrote:
    你搞得清楚什么叫做 充分必要 条件吗?

    你可以说 因为没有自主创新,所以某种意义上导致了中国的盗版以及别的问题很多;

    别动不动就谈逻辑和智商,你连基本的初中学习的 必要充分 都没搞明白呢。
    以后你有机会和钱比你多的交往就行,在你那里,Money talks。
  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:
    I'll thank you for the (albeit uncharacteristically) civil response.

    No one ever said that critical thinking is absent. It simply isn't encouraged as much as it should be, and part of that is because schools are administrated according to a profit motive (i.e. maximizing the number of students in a class room so as to collect more tuition money). Students aren't rewarded for "thinking outside the box." Sometimes they're even punished or ostracized.

    I said standardized testing is a necessary evil. That means it's flawed, but the we need it because the alternatives are not attractive.

    We often bitch about the public education system in the US, but at least it was a step toward ensuring equality of opportunity. Unfortunately, the education system there is heading in the opposite direction due to policies like No Child Left Behind. More and more teachers focus on simply preparing students for state tests, because their salaries are tied to students' performance. This is a terrible policy. Educational institutions suffer when they are treated like businesses.

    (...says the mercenary English teacher... wo cao)

    I'd like to see the principles of shanzhai applied to the education system in the form of completely electronic educational curricula available to anyone with an Internet connection, for free. I've learned at least as much from errantly surfing wikipedia in my free time as I have from lectures and directed research.
  • 随便叫兽
    随便叫兽 wrote:
    Also, income distribution is an inherently political issue in a socialist country. You were too quick to discount the role of government.
  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    Hahahaha ... great dinner tonight again, because I cooked it ... and having read some of the comments, I cannot help but feeling the ghostly presence of the once great "Shino W" ... woo wooooooo ... Jinkies ...

    Being me, I just have one question, or two ...

    1. How is one judged "educated" or "uneducated"? Does it depend on the country or school where this person was educated? And does it necessarily mean that "educated" people are not jerks? Hmmm ...

    2. What is "critical thinking"? And is today's "critical thinking" the same as "critical thinking" 100 years ago, or 1000 years ago?

    If anyone can explain these to me, it would be much appreciated ...
  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    Hahahaha ... Jeffrey, if you were referring to the last 5000 years, we must remember that there is a "missing link" over the century or two ...

    And as always, thanks Peter ...
  • Joakim Berg Solum
    Sun: "I just ask one question: how many of you in WLIB have a good knowledge of Mathematics, Computer Science and other technology?

    It is hard to innovate and invent something in today's world."

    This is an interesting point too. Many of the world's problems have already been solved, the bigger ones are "being worked on," usually by the bigger companies or government/conglomerates, such as energy industries.

    Innovation and creativity in smaller markets seems to be more about creating new demand vs solving some existing problem... because of the Internet and rapid spread of information, most of the known problems can already be quickly remedied by some Indian college kid if it's small enough and by large corporations if it's something that requires a large workforce to develop.

    But look at all the new stuff that's come out recently and is making big waves... social networking sites, smart phones, 3D TV, etc... none of these are actually particularly new ideas but they are trendy, and lot's of that has to do with interesting content/media and with marketing.

    I enjoy reading headlines highlighting new stuff from Chinese companies, it's a nice change of pace from reading about yet another iPad knockoff. The Lenovo IdeaPad U1 Hybrid for instance is just a cool idea.

    BTW, to answer your question, I don't know about the other guys here but my background is actually in computer science... graduated in 2005 at UIUC with a Bachelors in CS, and will be studying at a Masters program at Tsinghua starting 2010, also for computer science, or "Advanced Computing" as they like to call it.
  • wrote:

    Remember what I said in 100 Things You Hate About Foreigners in China:
    42. Do not fool those stupid Chinese with sentences like these: China is a country with 5,000-year history, actually, it was used to fool you, haha. Because most of Chinese people do not read history books after they left school.

    5000-year history is true and unique, Chinese people can be very proud of it, it is absolutely no question about it.

    OK, I talked about Needham Problem (The Needham Question), if you are interested, you can Google to know more. Because your question are the same as Dr. Needham concerned for long time and resulted in the famous volumes of Science and Civilisation in China (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Needham).

    There are no direct relationships with long history and leadership in innovation. It is very simple reason that heritage interruption can occurred during the history.

    Especially, the Ming Dynasty still leaded the world, but China lagged behind after the Qing Dynasty. There are evidences that the Renaissance in Europe has some relationship with China's technology and other innovations, but we can put them aside.

    One important fact is that you can not invent or innovate from scratch, just like U.S., it inherited all its civilization from the European and carried forward it, especially, during the late 19th century and the early 20th century, U.S. learned and assimilated all European technologies and attracted all top talents from all around the world because of World War I and II. China also cultivated some top innovative talents, such as SS. Chern (Wolf Prize Winner in Mathematics), CN. Yang (Nobel Winner in Physics) in old days. But I believe you can expect more innovations in sciences, technologies and other fields in the next decades, because time matters for this country and people.

    As for me, I agree that the "Needham question" is a counterfactual hypothesis, because I believe if only you love something and devote yourself to it, then you can make achievements in your areas, but in today's China, most people only care about more money and more benefits, but innovation needs more energy and a concentrated heart, if you ask someone to devoted all his time to study complicated mathematics, physics and other sciences, he will think about the trade-off with money; if you ask about she or he to do boring research about history, philosophy, sociology and other social sciences, she or he will ask the value these researches will bring to himself. Do not believe those altisonant reasons such as politics, salary and other excuses. Do you know Poincaré's Conjecture, which was solved by a Russian mathematician Perelman, he only earned 100 dollars per month. From the perspective of politics, economy and social condition, if China is not better than Russia, at least will not lag behind Russia too much.

    If you talk about excellence, someone will tell you she has more money than you, that' more important than innovation, hehe. By the way, Asraroth, if you are poor and do not own an apartment in Beijing and you are Chinese, you will be a shameful loser, haha

    You are an guitarist, therefore, you can continue Needham Problem research to give us a convincing answer.
  • wrote:
    Jon Gu,

    "Many of the world's problems have already been solved"
    You should say most can-be solved problems have already been solved.
    If you like you can work on NP problem in Computer Science.

    From the beginning, I explicitly pointed out the innovation should be specified, that's why I said 'some guys can innovate in business model (such as social network, but can you invent another better Page Rank Algorithm?), but for most people, they do not have the academic or industrial capabilities to innovate."

    There are many new technologies and Technics already mature enough in Laboratory, but do not have many applications, what you are talking about the demand is just market-driven innovations, but there are other non market-driven innovations.

    Do you know Jack Ma, he do not need to have any degrees in Computer Science, Mathematics and Economy, but he is a successful innovator in business model, his business of Taobao is absolutely a prove.

    By the way, I just heard students in Tsinghua want to study in U.S. and stay in U.S. either to do their own business or to find a high-paid position in U.S..
  • Joakim Berg Solum
    Good points. BTW, I must be an idiot then. Tsinghua students trying to to America to study, but I'm going from America back to study in China. hahahaha.... and I'm definitely not smart enough to solve the P=NP problem (if there is a solution anyways)
  • wrote:
    "I'm definitely not smart enough to solve the P=NP problem (if there is a solution anyways)"
    99.999% persons on earth are not smart enough to solve this problem, so that you do not need to be feel sorry, that's why I said ,not so many factors, the only determined factor is great persons that China needs. Most people do not understand how hard it is to solve some so-called small problems and take it for granted that he or she is smart, only prove that he or she is real idiot.

    But I personally believe it is a wrong action for you to go to China unless you already have some experiences. Do not care about my judgement, hehe
  • wrote:

    You idiot, I wrote so many to reply you, but you just talked about the employment in Beijing.

    "Bejing alone supplies millions of stable jobs"
    Are you kidding? 2,000 RMB per month?
  • wrote:

    I just know if you are unemployed, you can ask the government to pay you for some periods, that's OK for me.
  • Joakim Berg Solum
    Here's what I don't understand (completely on a tangent I guess, but hey, this is my thread hahaha)

    Why do people say it's more expensive to live in America? I've been in both China and the US and (I guess this is a key point) for a certain lifestyle, China seems more expensive.

    Housing in Beijing is fucking expensive, on par if not more than downtown Chicago per square meter. Cars cost at least 50% more, gas is more expensive. Technology items such as computers are generally 20-30% more expensive... brand name clothing/designer stuff is a lot more expensive, 30-40% more.

    If you live cheaply, rent instead of buying a house, have no car, always cook your own food, no internet/cell phone, etc, then you can get by on maybe 1500 yuan in China if you can find a really cheap apartment under 500RMB.

    In America, if you can find cheap housing (like government project or something) in an area where you don't have to drive then you can live on $200 or $300 a month too, for the exact same lifestyle as the average poor Chinese person. Basically just pay for food and shelter and clothing.
  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    Dont know the numbers, but agree with Astaroth and Jon ...

    Many moons ago, someone asked me whether he should migrate to Australia, we went through a very simple calculation of salary Vs tax Vs buying a property, and at the end, he decided that it is better to live in Beijing ...

    Repeating what Astaroth said, but in a more general tone ... if anyone hopes to have a better (and easier) life overseas, that is actually possible, but you must do your homework, have a plan, and set the correct expectation ...
  • wrote:
    SO that's why I said you made a wrong decision.
  • Joakim Berg Solum
    Sun, only if you are a citizen.... an international student who goes there and can't find a job isn't getting a penny from the government except for a kick in the ass back to whatever country he came from.
  • Joakim Berg Solum
    Sign me up! I'd love to take a tour of Cabrini, make sure to hit up all the local Chop Suey specialties too!
  • wrote:
    Jon Gu,

    That's why so many Chinese love U.S. so much and want to change their citizenship.


    Can you write some English that I can understand?
    'at least 1200 rmb a day" in China or U.S.?
    If it happened in U.S., I do not understand why so many Chinese exaggerate the situation in U.S.
  • wrote:

    I don't think they need your services."
    I will not go to U.S., hehe
  • wrote:
    Yes, I can't, so what?
    I do not have American dream, I am Chinese, hehe

    'wanna buy a house then lose your job and not able to pay your property taxes or mortgage?"
    The same happens in China.
  • wrote:
    "im just saying that I loathe to hear another story about how a person thinks they know how something is in a place they never been too."

    That's why i said in 100 Things You Hate About Foreigners in China:
    38. hypocritical, just like some Chinese, who are not American but always use American value to judge this country, totally stupid; but there are many right-minded foreigners in China.

    But I think it is not a bad decision to study abroad and have some experiences in foreign countries, but do not expect too high. Life is tough, hehe
  • wrote:
    "you are going to study and then work there"
    That's what I want to do, hehe
    just have a try and come back to China with more experiences.
  • wrote:
    Astaroth wrote: Po

    "I suggest you stay away from the states until things are settled there."
    haha, I will wait for 莫明 to transfer his U.S. citizenship to me after he decides to give up it and join Chinese citizenship several years later.
  • wrote:
    woo, 莫名 will feel sad that you even do not know who he is.

    Someone called him "American Sun in WLIB"
  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    Hahahaha ... just read from today's newspaper that Chinese labors are being cheated overseas, i.e. not getting paid, cannot continue visa, losing luggages ...
  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    Long before that, I think, Chinese were "brought" to the west to dig gold too ... and maybe that's why there is no "innovation", because all the smart people are doing cheap labour for foreign companies, in and outside China ... hahahaha ...

    We are perhaps too old to wait until China becomes as powerful as you said, though it might be interesting to see foreign people wanting to migrate to China for a better life, dont you agree?

  • wrote:
    Astaroth wrote: Posted 5 hours ago now I know the person to whom you are referring to.
    wo cao. the american sun? perhaps.

    back to what we said before.

    don't go to the states bro, stay here. If you go, you'll have to deal with some nice things like

    1. mindless violence(far worse than in China)
    2. Street Gangs(and they are everywhere)
    3. Extremely high taxes
    4. Tipping(something we never see in China(at least I haven't seen it))
    5. Fat chicks
    6. Advantage: Better Drivers

    ok ive an idea. You go to the states and I will remain here.
    when you get settled let me know where you are so we can open a business of importing guys to China for lonely business women here :P
    That's why I said there are right-minded foreigners in China, you are one of them.
    When i argued about racism, I talked about there are rarely organized and systematic violence and hostility against foreigners. But they try to deny and prove U.S. is much better.
  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)

    Hahahaha ... again, I was minding my own biz while reading today's China Daily ...

    The headline reads "Fake green peas - latest food scandal" ... and we have of course heard of fake eggs and fake vermicelli ... maybe in the very near future, these fake products would become the answer to the hunger problems around the world ...
  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)
  • Tate T
    Tate T wrote:
    I see the discussion has been diverted from innovation to "lonely Chinese business women"......just wondering where do they usually hang out? I want to meet them.
  • Mathew Abisai
    Mathew Abisai wrote:
    coc* banana
  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)


    Just saw these from the YNET.com this morning, and then decided to find the thread and show some of these ...


    ... and if we think about the word "innovation" from another angle, Chinese DO have tons of it:

    1. Punk Vs Puma

    2. Like?

    3. Fuma = Puma on nicotine

    4. dasabi? wasabi? adidas?

    5. Kappa spin-off

    6. The greatest of them all (but wait until you see the next one) ... hahahaha ...

    7. Who says pigs cannot fly?

    8. If they can use a pig, why not use a bear?

    9. ... or a fish?


  • №❶ Passioη
    history has it that the Chinese invented stuff like gunpowder, compass, abacus etc (unconfirmed sources though) but closing its doors to the rest of the world made china focus more on how to handle large population issues and ensure a steady economic growth rather than create new stuff. After opening its doors to the international community, The chinese realised they really had a lot of catching up to do.

    Today, it's embedded in the Chinese mindset (culture) to feel inferior to the west. Imagine my former boss (56 year old freak) in a meeting, defined creativity as the ability to take from others and make it look like yours - what a mentor to have. He also asked me to take design and contents from western professional websites to renovate ours. Surprisingly, I was the only one who stood against these kinds of opinions and paid the price (my Chinese colleagues only followed with no arguments). A typical chinese boss will tell you R&D is a waste of time and money but they will pretend to have it (or at least do temporarily) when applying for CMM3, etc. So when you have people of this mindset leading the rest, innovative minds are suppressed.

    However, I'm glad some Chinese companies are not complete conformists - eg: the electric bike companies do come up with new stuff, Midea is also doing well.

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