Discussion » Travel » Which City do you like more? Shanghai or Beijing?

  • HumphreY
    HumphreY wrote:
    Some of you might crucify me for asking this question, particulary given the north-south rivalry thing. :)

    Okay, to kick-off this: I 'm in favour of Shanghai, because there are more pretty girls AND beautiful women. :) I'm currently on another biz-trip in Shanghai, and my observation tells me the story everywhere. On the street, in the office, in the clubs, you name it. Women here (seem to) have better sense for style and attitude. Of course I know appearences are usually deceptive, particularly in China. :)

    So, which city is your favorite, if you have to pick between the two? And primarily why?
  • John
    John wrote:
    Shanghai is much better. I lived there that's why and everything you say is very accurate.
  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)
    ...

    One from me for Shanghai ... mainly for the food and life styles ...

    Being a SH myself (only 50%, the other 50% is Chao Zhou, the root of Mr Li Ka-shing), I must say that SH people are more materialistic and practical (in a good way) in comparison to the Beijing folks ...
  • Nadia Scheie
    Nadia Scheie wrote:
    shanhai city ok~~local ppl not ok tome~~
  • Shane
    Shane wrote:
    I love hong kong.... I have only been there for short stints when touring, so correct me if I'm wrong... but this is what I feel:

    Hong Kong women seem to be more real, and less interested in finding someone with a house, a car, and a large bank account

    The people generally seem more individualistic, in the way they dress, the way they act, etc.

    It seems HK people know how to enjoy themselves more... At midnight there were still throngs of people hanging out in parks talking with friends, drinking beers on the steps to the subway, etc. etc.

    In hong-kong there is less "I Chinese you not chinese" mentality, I feel legally and socially everyone is looked at as equals

    Hong Kong seems to have a strong middle class

    Amazingly clean and well-designed city (at least for tourism)

    Laws to prevent smoking in certain areas, even though i smoke i really hate going home smelling like it.

    No information control

    ------------The downside

    Pretty damn expensive city, as I understand, for living in

    No free internet! Even in starbucks!

    The first time i was in hong kong, i went to a 60 year old women and used 普通话 to ask her where someplace was. She responded "I can't speak mandarin, but if you can speak english I will help you.“ I damn near fell over backwards, I was so surprised to see a 60 year old women respond to me with perfect British pronunciation.

    Is ShangHai more like HongKong? What are the women like? I've heard they are really materialistic (in a bad way) but i haven't been there before so I don't want to judge.

    I'm thinking of moving to Shanghai or ShenZhen perhaps... anyone have insight between living in these two cities?
  • Richie
    Richie wrote:
    Shanghai or Beijing - for what? seems girls are your only concern and if your job (or life) is about watchin girls everyday, Shanghai's your place.

    For travel, there's nothing in Shanghai except the bund. Expo season should be good time to visit shanghai - not for Shanghai proper though.

    For Living, though Shanghai may seem more convenient but I always feel difficult to breathe living in a place where you can't even see the sky. Winters are harsh (try it yourself to believe), foodwise ... hard to say but I find food in Beijing more authentic.

    For work - I think it depends on your colleagues. Both Beijing and Shanghai, more 'waidi' staffs in the office the better. Locals are difficult to work with.
  • John
    John wrote:
    Richie laid down some good points I must admit. However to Shane, I'd still say you should try your hand at Shanghai.

    I can tell you right now that Shanghai is a place that has people devoted to making money, climbing the social ladder or whatever you wanna call it. If you like they idea of having a bright future through hard work then Shanghai is definitely a place for you. It may be expensive at times but its still quite easy to save money as the locals are very frugal.

    There's a lot to see in Shanghai proper, you just gotta do your research and it helps if you've actually been there for a bit. I used to go to church in People's Square, the name of the church was 木恩堂 (maybe the wrong "mu") and after service I'd go next door with my female friend to Raffle's City (来福士) which you can also find in Beijing's Dongzhimen.

    If you ever get tired of Puxi (not possible if you explore), you can always chill in Pudong and visit Lujiazui or Babaiban/Shangha Wan. I'd have to say that Shanghai is a consumer/money maker's paradise. Everyone can be entertained but they must do the proper research and go through some trial and error to find their favorite spot.

    Shanghai's pollution can be a problem at times but it also rains a bit which cleans it out for a few days. Winters ARE harsh because there's no central heating so you can't just wear a sweater at work/school and you WILL see your breath when you're talking to others (I did at my school anyway). The women still wear their miniskirts and boots though so you can always take your mind off the cold weather.

    Foodwise, Shanghai beats Beijing hands down but I'm not talking about Shanghainese cuisine which is just so-so. I'm talking about selection and quality of international cuisine. You will NOT be disappointed! Ever been to Malone's? Even Windows in Shanghai has good food for cheap!

    As for work I agree with Richie 100%, "waidi" staff is indeed better but they are influenced by the locals regardless so you'll still have that Shanghai/Beijing/(insert Chinese city here) feel.

    As for Shanghai women, they like who they find cool and they just want to see if you're a man or not. That is, they want to see what it is you want from life. If you want more than just easy sex and they feel attracted to you, you will be knee deep in no time. You can actually be straightforward in your communication and speak to them as if they have sense too which is really cool for rationally beings like myself. In Beijing a lot of girls might be feeling you but they're too afraid of risk and in Shanghai "risk" is the name of the game.

    I haven't been to Shenzhen yet but I hear it ain't no joke. It gets dirty and its no different from being in the States as far as crime is concerned.

    As for Hong Kong, I haven't been to city proper but from what you describe it sounds very similar to Taipei. Taipei reminded me of Shanghai but even freer (due to history). It was there that I remembered how good my life used to be in Shanghai.

    Hope that helped. I met some really cool people in Beijing and I had already lived in Beijing in '02 but Shanghai as a city will always be much cooler. And that's just the way it is. Make sure to visit Beijing's famous parks before you leave. I would suggest Jingshan and Beihai Parks in particular.
  • ****
    **** wrote:
    ok so if i use the general mind thinking of this discussion let's talk about girls so:i've been in Shanghai and i haven't seen a single beautiful girl(yeah i wasn't lost i went everywhere in Shanghai) moreover girls here seems more attracted by money and situation of the guy they hanged with so in Shanghai it's The place.
    In Beijing i saw beautiful girl almost every day
    so i would say Beijing.

    Now if i use my thinking:i would still say Beijing cause there is space you can breathe(shanghai is too small and so dam warm and wet)
    life in beijing is more confortable and interesting, so many things to see and do specially in 798. Shanghai is all about money only like the french concession the only peaceful place in shanghai or you have to go out of shanghai where you have those very old traditionnals and beautifuls chinese gardens i forgot the name off the city.

    anyway Beiijing is the best of all the places i've been in China however there is much more places i haven't been and i'm sure better than Beijing but i will always prefer beijing for living but i won't raise my family there in the future too dam polluted
  • ****
    **** wrote:
    richie is right i forgot but food is definitetly a major point
  • ****
    **** wrote:
    i think John really know what is talking about and people should listen to him even if he is for shanghai but he got the points and many discussion miss that on this website

    i'm still for beijing, won't give up
  • Xx
    Xx wrote:
    Tianjin
  • Tonje Nygård
    Tonje Nygård wrote:
    我最喜欢香港!我们华人地区我最喜欢的还真的就是香港!
  • Shane
    Shane wrote:
    Tianjin? Anyone lived in Tianjin before? I've always thought of it as a not-so-cool version of beijing
  • Peter Baird
    Peter Baird wrote:
    Shanghai blows. Much more expensive than Beijing and totally devoid of culture. No offence to Shangai people intended, of course. It's just that Shanghai is purely a city of commerce, while Beijing is much more diverse.
  • Cecilie Reksten
    beijing
  • Miriam Pedersen
    It's cool how this discussion develops. Just few reminders from my side.

    1. Please stick to Shanghai and Beijing and don't name other cities. I mean, personally I love Hongkong as well. It's actually my All-Time-Favorite chinese city. But this one is not about HK. So let's pick either Beijing or Shanghai.

    2. If you are in favor of one city, regardless whether Shanghai or Beijing, please also name why. Just name the city is lame.

    3. By no means I only want to talk about girls. It was just a (great) example. :) I truely love other aspects of Shanghai, like the many art-deco buildings at the Bund, the amazing view from the 100th floor of SWTC in Pudong and the relaxing small coffee bar and art galleries of Taikang Lu (so much to "there is no culture like 798" in Shanghai, hehe). Someone mentioned the quiet alleys of the former French Consession with their beautiful villas between lining sycamore trees. That's good one too. From doing stuff, I also love Shanghai's great Tango Argentino community and of course it's vibrant night scene.

    By the way, those saying there are no hot girls in Shanghai, obviously never been to places like Muse ;)

    Okay, let's continue.
  • Da Fan
    Da Fan wrote:
    I have been to Shanghai for more than 20 times, and I like the city as a place for 2-3 days rest. But that city just got everything except "soul", or what to say, culture. And yeah, Shanghai is not so diverse, so actually the city changes u, but not u create the city. Beijing is different, each group of people can be a part of it as a independent source of culture, at least a kind of life style--comparatively. And compare with those foreigners who based in Shanghai, I prefer those who are in Beijing.

    As to Hongkong, been there around 10 times. Best of the best place for shopping, and occasional clubbing. Besides that, the city's just more boring than Shanghai...culturally
  • John
    John wrote:
    @Da Fan

    Sometimes culture is not enough. This is why cities in Asia like Hong Kong, Taipei, Seoul and Tokyo kick ass. They have something to offer EVERYONE, not just huge walls to keep Mongols out and tombs of dead people from the Ming dynasty with just a pinch of hot girls at Joy city and SLuT (Sanlitun).

    In these other cities, girls actually take the effort to be hot because they're hot, not to gain shit from the opposite. A girl could walk down the street dressed up looking nice because she likes looking nice and she SHOULD look nice before she walks out that door! Now if the right guy comes along....then so be it!

    Sorry Humphrey for breaking the rules. It all goes back to Beijing VS Shanghai if you think about it though.
  • Da Fan
    Da Fan wrote:
    @John,

    Humphrey just said that "by no means I only want to talk about girls", so for u, is it by all means u want to talk about girls~

    btw, the walls and tombs are how u define...err...culture? or whether girls taking effort to be hot coz they're hot is the most important criteria in ur mind ;)

    Tokyo kick ass! that's the sole point I agree. coz it got profound culture. So does NY, so dose Paris.

    Ohh, both of us just broke the rule, sorry
  • John
    John wrote:
    @Da Fan

    It's all good. I don't want to talk about just girls. I've mentioned a lot else that Beijing has to offer like dead people and huge walls. Some of these huge walls also surround beautiful parks with soon to be dead people conversing, writing characters on concrete and playing with dogs that contribute to the piles of shit you can find on almost any street in the Northern Captial (Bai Ping). My point was that although Beijing has a very rich culture and I respect that, on the whole it cannot compete with the likes of Shanghai and all the other cities. You can't be good at everything.
  • Da Fan
    Da Fan wrote:
    @John

    Hey man, I already said that I really enjoy my time in other cities, they are wonderful, and my point of view is quit simple: I, you and others here are all not scholars on social science, but just city dwellers expressing their feeling huh? so my PERSONAL FEELING is: I like Beijing more, coz the most important element of a city that attract ME is it's cultural environment. That's all. I'll never say things like "ON THE WHOLE, blablabla" before my defining what is "ON THE WHOLE" and considering whether I got the ability to define it and then draw a opinion that looks more like a conclusion - while obvious it's not - but not like a PERSONAL FEELING.

    You said: "I can tell you right now that Shanghai is a place that has people devoted to making money, climbing the social ladder or whatever you wanna call it. If you like they idea of having a bright future through hard work then Shanghai is definitely a place for you." I'm agree with u on this, so I agree that "You can't be good at everything" -- who ever said that XXX city is good at everything? and who ever said that only if the city u PERSONALLY LIKE is objectively good at everything, then u can call this city u PERSONALLY FAVORITE ONE? it's quit funny huh?

    So, if u wanna prove XXX city is ON THE WHOLE better, first of all, u need to define what is "ON THE WHOLE"? then u need to list out some datas and sources, right?
    And this is not this thread are talking about, just speak out ur anwser, and tell us why is fair enough. I'd like to know ur PERSONALLY FEELINGS on some place, so that next time when I pay a visit, maybe I can find more~~
  • John
    John wrote:
    Dude. Chill. Get a sense of humor. You're a cool guy, you're just reading too much into things. Each place has its good and bad parts. The end.
  • Da Fan
    Da Fan wrote:
    ahhhh...such a cliche to let others "chill", "get sense of humor" when others' always chill to the core and quit enjoying his time, sigh... -_-!

    Well well well, let's keep on talking abt hot girls :D
  • John
    John wrote:
    Since I'm straight, its something I find great joy in discussing. That's kind of the problem with Beijing if you think about it. Just take a look at your most recent post.

    You know what my motto for 2010 is?

    "You can blame me but you can't shame me!"

    I don't think you should waste your time on me. If you choose to do so it doesn't matter anyway.
  • John
    John wrote:
    I respect the fact you like Beijing more. That's cool. I used to feel that way but I was young and naive (16-17 years old). As a young man in his 20s however Shanghai will always be much more appealing. If you visit for just a few days it will be hard to see EXACTLY what this city has to offer. This is a city that takes months to begin to understand whereas Beijing is plain and simple which to some people could be a bit boring after a while.

    Nonetheless, its always good to travel.
  • Da Fan
    Da Fan wrote:
    OK, got u, dude, I hearby apologize on what I most recently said, sincerely. And if we got a chance meet each other, I'll buy u a beer, hopefullly in Shanghai. OK?
  • Da Fan
    Da Fan wrote:
    and, the total days I spent in Shanghai maybe more than a year...remember, I said I've been there for more than 20 times, and I like that city. All things I said is just comparatively, and all these are just personal feeling. Yeah, it's a great place to travel, and I plan to go there again this April
  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)
    ...

    Shane, thanks for loving Hong Kong so much ... though I dont like the crowd (which was the main reason I left Hong Kong), the food and culture is still amazing ... unfortunately, it does not seem to be quite the same since 1997 ...
  • John
    John wrote:
    All is well. I like talking with you and the few other intelligent guys on WLIB because I know such folks are a rare sight on this site! No need to be so formal with me since guys will be guys. We can drink at Pyro or LaBamba or even in SLT its all good with me. Or maybe a place like 郭林. I have good friends in Beijing, Chinese and foreign as well as many great memories. I know the city quite well. It was perfect for me as a teenager but doesn't cut the cake with me now. I'm about business. I'm about money. Therefore, places like Shanghai will appeal to me MUCH more which goes to prove one of the points you made earlier.

    It's not all about the girls but more about the financial opportunities present. In Beijing its about working for a big company that provides great benefits but in Shanghai its more about starting your own business from nothing and learning from the road less taken. This is what people from both cities are more likely to respect which shows in their different personalities which then influences my reaction to the ladies of both places which is just as huge a part of a city as its culture. If you look at it this way, all of the bitching and moaning from dudes about Beijing women even begins to make sense!

    Can't live with them and can't live without them!
  • Don
    Don wrote:
    neither of them...........
  • Da Fan
    Da Fan wrote:
    I think u r right, and I said that I agree on that Shanghai is a better place for starting ur own business. The economy of Beijing is sort of too "official" or "state-owned", so the market here is not that free as it is in Shanghai. You made the right choice man, and good for u~
  • John
    John wrote:
    So there you have it:

    Beijing: State owned
    Shanghai: Free enterprise

    In Beijing, gals lean toward guys who sit on lots of dough and usually these guys happen to come from really good families and didn't work that hard for the money they have access to.

    In Shanghai, gals lean toward guys with strong will and courage because they understand that thoughts are powerful things and know how money works. They've seen guy after guy come to Shanghai broke and leave a man, all because they had the right ideas.

    I have yet to see a Shanghai online forum where foreign guys complain in excess about local women whereas on WLIB its a daily occurrence. I never had such a strong online presence until I came to Beijing. In Shanghai I always had my hands full (either cash or ass).

    Ok I'm done talkin'! Back to your regularly scheduled program!
  • Jon Magnus Ro
    Jon Magnus Ro wrote:
    i prefer beijing, more culture is preserved here since its not as westernized as shanghai.
    shanghai just has this cheesy western style to it.
  • Xx
    Xx wrote:
    beijing and shanghai are better for work
    but tianjin is better for life ,in my opinion
    i know some expats in tianjin,and i think they are more satisfied than laowai in beijing
  • Miriam Pedersen
    Madision,

    what's wrong about "western style"? I mean, for some foreigners, who come to China because they wanna see the traditional chinese culture (probably watched in some Kongfu-movies) it might be disappointing that there is a chinese city where everyone from the world can just come over and easily get along right away.

    This is used to be the true mission of Shanghai already more than two hundred years ago: serving as a doorway to China for all new arrivals. Shanghai was and probably will be again the most cosmopolitan city of China. After Hongkong took over that role for couple of decades.

    NYC is not America. Paris is not France and Tokyo is not Japan. But these great cities all have the same mission. People usually come to these cities first, when they are interested in venturing the country. So it's nothing "cheesy" about it, imho.
  • Miriam Pedersen
    @all

    yeah, Da Fan mentioned it already. One reason I started this thread is also to exchange personal experiences regarding Beijing and Shanghai So we can enrich and help each other in discovering aspects of the cities we don't know yet.
  • Shane
    Shane wrote:
    @ding dang

    Not to bring it back to hong kong, but it is now owned by China again :) so I'm going to bring it back to hong kong....

    I think the reason i like hong kong the most, is because i' am not treated differently, and people seemed to know enough about the west to not ask all the silly questions. The aspect of "Us and You" in the mainland can really wear on me at times.

    Ding Dang, Are you from hong kong or have you spent a lot of time there? what are the people like? What turned you off about the people and culture? I have 2 very good female friends who i visit when i'm down there, and they are really sweet people.

    One post is enough :) sorry to distract the thread
  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)
    ...

    Hahahaha ... Shane, the Hong Kong you know now, is not quite the same (old) Hong Kong that I was born or grew up in ... but most people in Hong Kong are so used to seeing different skin color (white, black, red, green, blue) or eye color etc that no one would stare at you, which is considered impolite among western worlds ... and this is perhaps something for the local BJ folks to learn about ...

    Yes, I was born in HK in the 60's, then migrated to Australia in the 90's, so I know something about the old HK, but not much about the present HK ... come to think of it, how the western folks are "treated" in BJ now, or SH for that matter, is similar to how they might have been treated 30 or 40 years ago, the folklore of "Suzie Wong" might have illustrated that ... in fact, back in the 70's, if someone came back after studying aboard for a few years, they were considered "higher class" than local graduates ... you can perhaps see the similarities there ...

    It is difficult to describe how the HK people might be, or how they might differ from BJ or SH locals, but as I said above, most of them have gotten used to seeing western folks that any Shane, Pete, Tom, Dick and Harry would just be considered a neighbour instead of an alien ...

    The only two things I dont like are the crowd and weather, so god only knows I would meet my wife in Sydney and then came to a even more crowded city, i.e. BJ ... but such is life, right? hahahaha

  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)
    ...

    To Humphrey ... but why only two cities? There are other great cities such as GuangZhou, DaLian ...
  • Heidi Reisvang
    beijing. as u can see traditional and moden culture togrther.
  • Tonje Nygård
    Tonje Nygård wrote:
    还是喜欢香港!
  • Miriam Pedersen
    @Uncle Doraemon

    Why Beijing vs. Shanghai?

    Well, I 'm just back from another biz trip in Shanghai. So since I'm living in Beijing right now, the (few) similarities and the (many) differences just came up my mind.

    And second there seems to be a very strong aversion between local people from both cities. So I just want to check whether it's also true here on the forum and why.

    And my goal/expectation is through discussions to learn about places in Beijing with stuff, which I thought/currently still think only exist in Shanghai. Because, after all I'm still not very familiar with Beijing.

    So that's why I started this thread. Don't want to talk about other chinese cities, because honestly, I've not been to that many other cities in China and second I don't think I ever will :)

    But if you want to discuss pros&cons of chinese or world cities in general, feel free to open a new thread. And I'm happy to enter the fray. :)
  • WENwen
    WENwen wrote:
    don't like them at all. prefer small towns.
  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)
    ...

    Hahahaha ... Humphrey, gotcha ...

    So, Shane and Doctor 唐, if you guys want to talk about the good and bad of Hong Kong, let's roll ...

    And between SH and BJ, I still vote for SH ... maybe because I was born and grew up in Hong Kong, SH feels far more modernised, whereas BJ seems out in many ways ...
  • Tonje-Marie Hansen
    beijing suzhou
  • Li Han
    Li Han wrote:
    It is funny to see there is a discussion like this, and it definitely worth talking about. I am an hangzhouer, who live in beijing for 6 years and go to shanghai pretty frequently for biz trip, shopping, clubing, and even some times visa application.

    Well, since almost all of my ethic and morality was cultivated in BJ, I must admit i have a certain favour for Beijing. that is a city with more Inclusiveness. Culturally, she shows so much of our beautiful, respectful and magnificent Chinese nation, at the mean time, she tolerates all kinds of diffent culture. Shanghai, in the other hand, is truly a cosmo, it is somewhat more civilized, but with less soul. I go to shanghai clubs often, and the most comment idea is, wow, there are so many model here, they really are beautiful. lol, that not dificult to understand why male gender favor SH more than BJ. BUT HEY, THRER ARE HOT CHICKS IN BJ too~!

    to shane:
    you will like shanghai, i bet. give it a try. :)
  • Rebecca Arnesen
    I've lived in both shanghai and beijing, and have a lot of love for both cities. I'm currently in beijing, and get asked this exact question all the time!

    The thing that suprised me was quite how different the two places are. I also completely disagree with the above point that shanghai is somehow lacking in "soul". Yeah the buildings are modern, this has nothing to do with the feel on the streets.

    For me Shanghai is more exciting. I'm drawn to the big city and shanghai definately satisfies this aspect more than beijing. I love the bustle of shanghai, the street vendors, the moto-taxis, the chuan-kaoing xinjiangers trying to sell laowai weed, its all good to me!

    Foreign culture has a bigger role in the makeup of shanghai. That is, in its peoples attitudes, the music and nighlife, obviously the architecture, and so on. This makes it more comfortable to live in for us laowai i think, and perhaps of more interest to the more outward looking chinese?

    Thats not to say i don't like living in Beijing, I really do. It has a more "homegrown" feel to it, the cafes and parks are much better than shanghai, there are more things to go out and see in the daytime. I get "laowaid" a lot more here, it feels a little more prejudiced against foreigners. And boy do the beijingers often lay into shanghainese when i mention that i lived there! 每个上海人都是骄傲?不会吧!hehe

    The main thing for me is that beijing feels more controlled. I have no idea what it was like before the olympics, but theres a real lack of the street vendors in beijing. These guys make shanghai more dirty for sure, but also make the streets more alive...

    My advice: For comfort choose beijing, for excitement choose shanghai!

    As for girls, most of em are waidiren anyway, so no difference between the cities! hehe






  • ****
    **** wrote:
    well culture is a lot more than just dead man and huge wall even if this take a big part of it but culture is the essence of humanity.someone without culture is someone thata just too the first breath in life, just taste the life, culture is everything.

    about cheesy western life, you only have this in china.it's china that take the label ''western'' and transformed it into a monstruosity. i mean everywhere in china u can see that. the best example for me was when i went to chongqing: i had a speech to deliver in a new rich residence just build where the theme was friendship beetween chongqing and paris( no problem with that) but the things is that they said the residence was in french style, i couldn't believe! it was nothing like it but when i mean nothing it's really nothing!the houses the small castle they buid in the middle for show and the design inside, they even make a show where two chinese played french knights in medieval time and they kneels before a couple of chinese playing king and queen but the pathetic things was that the knights were from 1400 after J.C the king was dressed with a very cheap canival clothes that looks more like a circus beast master and clown hair and all the styles looks in the mid1800 for the qeen she just looks like a barbie princess(cheap also) like in cartoon so that is the cheesy western look made not by western and actualy don't represent at all western civilization so maybe i'm getting a little bit carried away from the topics but i'm replying to Madison and for Humphrey i do think that NYC is not America but a part of it like Paris is part of France and Tokyo part of Japan the only difference is that we don't try to copy for example in Paris, french don't copy chinese style for chinese people living in paris but chinese people do it themselves so the idea even if it's not true is still pretty much almost the same, but in china , chinese investors called their places western style ,ect, ect to attract people but it's a facade it actually doesn't looks like western.

    there is a chinese restaurants in Xiaoyunlu (going to Juxianqiao) that's call itself ''French Romantics Restaurants'' it's actually a total disgrace it's giving a 100% wrong idea about french style cause it's nothing like it

    so you don't have cheesy chinese style abroad but you have cheesy western style in China!
  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)
    ...

    Hahahaha ... Alban ... if I could have any more tears after reading that, my apartment would become an ice-skating park ...

    Having lived overseas for 20 years, I have seen some funny (if not silly) imitation of Chinese style among western folks, though they often do much better research about it (and also keeping it simple) compared to these folks in CQ about French ...

    Like what my wife taught me, even if they are completely wrong, one much appreciate their effort ... so I hope you had a good laught out of all that ...

    And again, just to stay with the "theme" of this thread ... voting for Shanghai ...
  • Malin Aaker
    Malin Aaker wrote:
    Oh you know the most famous Chinese dish in France?

    Vietnamese spring rolls!

    So on both sides, we're pretty far from knowing what the other does
  • Saint - Spartacus


    Don wrote:

    neither of them...........

    i agree

    should enjory the original attraction of sth nature(not only physical) as the need of humain beings
  • Saint - Spartacus
    by the way
    beijing was better than tianjin, less discrimination,people in beijing are much ture and kind hearted for outside people

    i've lived in tianjin for 4 years and it's a real hell , you can never catch the true face whatever...
  • Jacky Wong
    Jacky Wong wrote:
    @小鸟 yup!suchou is really a nice place!especially jinji lake!
    Though I'm totally in favor of shanghai(having my senior high study there,and now in BJ),maybe most of u here r not familiar with suchou,I'd like present u guys sth about that wonderful place.I was born and brought up in Suzhou, a picturesque city as paradise in heaven.First of all,the culture is very important for a city as DA FAN said,as u know suchou is famous for its numerous royal gardens,which r the witness of the ups and downs of this civilized city ,It's absolutely worthwhile to visit there!On the other hand,I enjoy the living environment in suchou,although the old city center was built in a traditional way,not seeing so many skyscrapers and modern buildings.if u happen to visit there by train initialed with 'D" from the south railway station,it is highly likely that u'll be disappointed to some extent,cause the railway station of suchou is neither huge nor morden,but a bit dirty and crowd ed (I hate that place too!)I strongly recommend to go to the industry and commercial district(工业园区,英文不好,见谅),which is built as a singapore style,clean,full of vegetation and modern buildings,but surprisingly few people,and the price of house is reasonable(about 1.5W per square meter) in comparison to sh and bj(that's the main reason i love that place)!A nice clean jinji lake is located there,the scenery from the lake shore is awesome!BTW there r many fascinating places around jinji lake,for instance, yuan rong times square,imax cinema,biggest ferries wheel in the asia(if ture),li gong's bank(so many bar's there)etc.I'm sure all of u will enjoy the fresh air of hiking near the lake.
  • Da Fan
    Da Fan wrote:

    yeah, Suzhou's a great city, i've been there for many times too. I really like the local gov.'s endevor of preserve the old town. Tho as a major tourism destination, the city become sort of too comercial in many way, but this is a general problem in China. Actually I still can find many many original element in that city on my own, it's quit amazing. Oh, btw, I hate Suzhou railway station too, hope the local gov. can finish the reconstruction soon~

  • Jacky Wong
    Jacky Wong wrote:
    @Da Fan
    Jinji lake(金鸡湖) area is a fantastic place to live in,modern,clean,not crowded,full of vegetation,reasonable house prize,nice sceneries ,and most advanced public facilities. u can even get the some familiar feeling of bund there. If u had been there,i'm sure u'll love that place like me.
  • Da Fan
    Da Fan wrote:
    btw, I remember that I've asked some foreigners who had expressed their preference to Shanghai when I was in uni. As to the reason, many of them said it is becoz Shanghai is more "westernized". Actually I'm still wondering why they use the word "westernized"...What the definition of "westernized"? Coz as far as I see, and as far as I know, there are few places in all the western world ever reached the same urbanization and modernization level of Shanghai, so statistically, I assume that a greater portion of westerners who love Shanghai should put their preference all down to the fact that, compare with their rural hometown, Shanghai is a real metropolis. It is sort of like how a country boy may feel when he visits the NYC for the first time. He may got amazed becoz NYC is much more modernized, right?

    So, still the question, what is the definition of the word "westernized"? Is it a adjective with the same meaning of "modernized" or "urbanized"? while obviously most part of the western world is not as modern as Shanghai or other majoy cities in China. Or, is this word a adjective with the same meaning of "open-minded", just like some guys said above, that ppl wont treat u as aliens, while as far as I know, places in the western world in which ppl wont consider a, say, Chinese immigrant, an alien are also quit rare.
  • Miriam Pedersen
    I personally think "westernized" is more about how much a city embrassed the way of living of western countries...

    It does not imply any degree of modernization or urbanization. It's more about where to get my continental breakfast in the morning, whether I can communicate in english with people around me, whether I can get around without a dictionary, whether I can eat food I know, whether I can party at night with open minded people and chart music from my home country...etc.



  • Da Fan
    Da Fan wrote:
    so actually the word "westernized" partly means "globalized"? like u can get ur hometown stuff like breakfast, music, food and etc. in that place? and the word can only be used to describe somewhere other than the western world? in view of that those criteria u listed include one that ppl can communicate in English, not in other languages. And, why whether being "open minded" is a factor in evaluate a place's level of "westernization"?

    Eg, actually few ppl in Tokyo can communication in English, maybe fewer than that of Shanghai, so Tokyo is not so westernized as Shanghai is? and if u can get all u want, include music, food, places of joy, open-minded ppl, etc. in Tokyo, coz it's so globalized, but, if only few Tokyo citizen can speak basic English, Tokyo is not "westernized" at all?

    Err, btw, the word "westernized" is a commendatory adjective or just a neutural one, and why?
  • John
    John wrote:
    @Humphrey

    "I personally think "westernized" is more about how much a city embrassed the way of living of western countries...

    It does not imply any degree of modernization or urbanization. It's more about where to get my continental breakfast in the morning, whether I can communicate in english with people around me, whether I can get around without a dictionary, whether I can eat food I know, whether I can party at night with open minded people and chart music from my home country...etc."

    Beautifully put!

    @Da Fan

    You get it loud and clear! Tokyo is definitely not as "westernized" as other world cities and when I tried to speak English there people literally ran away from me!

    "why whether being "open minded" is a factor in evaluate a place's level of "westernization"? "

    When citizens of a particular area on the whole are more "open-minded", visitors feel more at home. When visitors feel more at home, the new city becomes a home away from home that they actually take pride in. When a city's people are not as "open-minded" (see: Beijing), foreigners do NOT feel at home in their new location (see: dudes/dudettes bitching and moaning on WLIB.com forums) and want to leave. Most foreigners will DEFINITELY place Beijing lower than Shanghai because they are more welcome in Shanghai than in Beijing.

    "Westernized" is ALWAYS used to describe somewhere other than the western world just like how "yellow fever" is used exclusively for men who aren't Asian.

    For more information on the word "westernized", try this website here:

    www.dictionary.com
  • Miriam Pedersen
    Tokyo is "westernized" in many aspects but definitely not on the language front. The couple of times I've been there (and to Japan in general), I have to resort to my crap japanese and was more successful getting along with it than using english. But language is not the sole factor judging "westernization". Can't remember having put it that way.

    It's kinda about digging into the many facets what you value most and miss most from your home country/society/culture. Different people from different western countries need to recognize different things to make them feel being in a "westernized" place. A french guy from Paris will definitely not value people being able to speak "english" as major sign of "westernization" but maybe the availability of a nice french bakery around the corner.

    Regarding the word "open-minded", don't you agree that the Occient has always considered it's cultural values and it's political system as the most open-minded one in the world? The word "open-minded" has been "licensed" by western civilizations since the rise of the polis in ancient Greek. It's a stereotype. But it's plain reality.

    At least in German "Westernized" (verwestlicht) has a negative touch when used describing countries with a rich cultural heritage. So I assume it pretty much depends whether you consider China as a country with a rich cultural heritage or not ;)
  • John
    John wrote:
    Great points as usual.
  • Da Fan
    Da Fan wrote:
    Nope, I wont try any dictionaries, coz what I am wondering is not what a certain word mean explained in a dictionary, but what it really means in ppl's mind:)

    and ur "When citizens..." paragraph confused me more: ur logical line is quit clear. Since my question is on the relationship of the level of "open-minded" and the word "westernization", do u imply that "western" means "open-minded"? or how to say, the western world can made visitors feel more like at home, take pride in, do not want to leave? Or, it just means that a place other than the western world can makes visitors from WESTERN WORLD feel more like at home, take pride in, and do not wanna leave?

    Maybe I made it quit vague. to say it more clearly: what does the word "open-minded" really mean? Open-minded to visitors from any places of the world, or open-minded to visitors from the western world?
  • John
    John wrote:
    People write dictionaries or so I thought.
  • Da Fan
    Da Fan wrote:
    Great point HumphreY~~ So based on what u say, u do think the word "westernized" is a neutural adjective? if not, why~
  • Da Fan
    Da Fan wrote:
    when come to a word, esp. an adjective, what u got from Webster, from Urbandictionary.com and from ppl u randomly ask could be totally different~
  • Joakim Berg Solum
    Dictionaries aren't written by people. The are created by a randomized computer program that decides our language for us. Some people call this "divine" but the rest of us realize that it's all just completely senseless.

    Wish I could comment on Beijing vs Shanghai. Never been to Shanghai before...
  • Miriam Pedersen
    As said before, whether the word "westernized" is used in a positive or negative way always dependent on the person using it and the person interpreting it.

    But this is true for all words we use. A word is always neutral. Actually it reminds me of the infamous quote. "Guns don't kill people, People do" :)

    I'm getting philosophical... bedtime :)

    gnite,

  • Da Fan
    Da Fan wrote:

    ha, nice quote, bro. gnite~

  • John
    John wrote:
    Jon Gu you're full of shit but I like that. You're funny.

    @Da Fan

    Sooner or later you'll have to stand up on your own and choose which definition best suits your interests which is something we have no control over.

    "Or, it just means that a place other than the western world can makes visitors from WESTERN WORLD feel more like at home, take pride in, and do not wanna leave?"

    In my case, this one here is EXACTLY what I mean!

    "Maybe I made it quit vague. to say it more clearly: what does the word "open-minded" really mean? Open-minded to visitors from any places of the world, or open-minded to visitors from the western world?"

    Any places of the world= "global"

    western world= "westernized"
  • Da Fan
    Da Fan wrote:
    Of coz I do have my definition on these word, however, since these words are all English, and the meaning of these words are quit vague, I wanna check out what others think. Now at least I got some points:

    1, the word "westernization" does not imply and degree of "modernization" and "urbanization"

    2, "westernization" and "globalization" are quit different

    3, "westernzed" and "open-minded" are different too, coz the object here is selected

    4, "westernization", "globalization", "open-minded"...are all neutual words, if not, ppl who uses them put their attitude in these words
  • John
    John wrote:
    These are good, solid conclusions definitely worth the work you put in. I learned a lot as well!

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