Discussion » Feedback & Suggestions » stability, education and english teacing?

  • patrick or 潘云迪
    patrick or 潘云迪 wrote:
    Ok so first of all I want to make it pretty clear that my reason for posting this was not out of being materialistic or in any case perhaps denying the actual possibility of having to return to my home country at some point and not denying any responsibility to what I intended to do but hey plans change don’t they? and I just so happen to really like it here in China.

    However one can argue and quite noticeably so there is a fairly detrimental flaw in the thought process. My qualifications in fitness coaching and massage not to mention the APM diploma "Anatomy, Physiology and Myology" might hold strong here in China, but right now my Chinese speaking ability is based on a I can survive and talk level say in retro respect I can read, write and talk to the coherent ability of a ten year old, of course with a slightly more sophisticated grasp of wordings and culture.

    So as a foreigner in China "30 months now" it seems the only remedy is to be an English teacher or so I’ve figured. I mean ok I’m from Ireland, and yes we speak English as the first language and study Irish in school, but besides that rather mundane point, I found that English teaching has many opportunities regarding income and flexibility, and well if you happen to like teaching why not regard it as a "professional” job. I mean per definition a job is only as professional as your attitude, right? , Anywhere else in the world English teachers are respected in what they do. I have many friends who went to college and studied to be an English teacher and they are proud of their chosen qualification and yes the parents of a girlfriend would be equally as proud that their daughter was “taken care of”. So why is it not the same in China? This in itself is a rhetorical question.

    Please read on..

    So ok down to brass tacks, the point of this is to say that money is money a job regardless of its nature is still a job, some will argue its important to teach the job you like I think “do what you love, love what you do”. But, there is a small hiccup in that theory. It seems in China there is a stigma against English teaching and ill leave this open ended for further discussion, but, what I fail to realize and assimilate is this, if I can be a teacher doing a 25hour week and earning say ten thousand+ RMB with some extra’s “jobs” on the side, why oh why a person working as a translator or some other “professional” job is deemed to be better, and for the point of argument lets say the wage is the same. Why therefore fundamentally not eyes as the same?

    And last but not least perhaps to avoid quite a few misunderstandings I’m aware of 3 more points as to why it could not be viewed in the same but I didn’t have enough time to elaborate, the points as follows by order of relevance.

    1. Attitude of the teachers, unprofessional conduct, enough said.
    2. Stability, yes I know all people anywhere in the world look for starts off with the big S.
    3. Qualification, No being native in my mind doesn’t fit the qualification standard, how about communication, language and the quite important one COMMONSENSE. 

    Thank you for reading
  • Daniel
    Daniel wrote:
    I guess because good jobs are meant to be hard to get or to take some special skill that sets you apart from the other candidates. whereas making a living from teaching English in China is quite easy, even if you haven't graduated University.
  • patrick or 潘云迪
    well, yes you do have a point, but maybe i wasnt so clear on the everyone can do it but not every bothers to do it well, i just think the value of english teaching is undermined becasue so many do it and well dont do it well or put heart into it,
  • Kodi
    Kodi wrote:
    Yeah I agree with Patrick that many people do it and do not take it seriously, so they have the effect of ruining the credibility of other more professional English teachers here in China. I like teaching English and I adore my students. I will teach them even after classes stop and encourage them to contact me outside of class even if they just want to chat a little. I absolutely love to teach them! I do not go to class drunk or go out drinking if I know I have classes in the morning. Bottom Line Is: I do believe people who want to teach English in any foreign country should take it seriously or not bother to teach at all because these students pay a shit load of money to learn English and do not deserve some privileged prick who does not take his/her job seriously to come and grab their money without effort.

    On the subject of the stigma surrounding teaching English in China I can only laugh at this. I love to teach and I put effort into it. I am not one of those people who give us a bad reputation. Furthermore, I could care less what someone will think about me teaching English especially because of the fact that in a good month working 40+ hours a week I make 40,000rmb! With this in mind people can whisper whatever they want about me because I am getting paid baby!

    I have also been entertaining the idea of staying here to save money and I have opted recently to continue my education through the outreach branch of my university. Money is money and it does not really affect my decision as much as the fact that I love China and love teaching English, but if someone wants to say that teaching English holds lower prestige than a translation job that pays 1/6th the money I will simply have to laugh. I am not in it for prestige I am in it to be happy and feel good at work. I am in it to learn about China. I am in it for security and the freedom that teaching affords me to plan my future. Just don't be the douche bag teacher that creates the stereotype and there should be no moral, character, or conflicting problems with regard to responsibility as a person. Oh and if you do it right teaching English takes preparation and a considerable amount of effort, so there should be no judgments made about this before trying it.
  • patrick or 潘云迪
    I really go for what you said there, maybe its just better i stick with what im doing and yeah your words speak true, what kind of teaching are you doing if you dont mind me asking kodi,
  • patrick or 潘云迪
    It has just came to my attention that I have spent teaching wrong,,,,,, damn
  • Kodi
    Kodi wrote:
    I do a variety of different things: I teach for TOEFL and IELTS, I teach conversational English and spoken English classes, and I also have private students whom I tutor with whatever they need. I also just pick up students who want to study to improve their advanced English skills. One on One and small classes I do it all and I also have students of varying age.

    Do not let what I said discourage you. Some schools just throw a teacher in the class with students of varying skill levels and then expect the teacher to teach everyone effectively. In this situation it is hard to feel like you are doing your job well. It is also part of the schools responsibility to screen their students for proficiency in order to provide them with the best courses to meet their needs. This is a problem with many schools here in Beijing. They just jam them in any open class no matter what their English level is just so they can grab their money. Also many so called training schools in Beijing do not even have the authorization to teach languages, for they only have consulting licenses, which is why most of them only hire part time teachers because they cannot obtain work VISA for the foreign teachers. This type of school is more likely to give classes like I described of varying level students who are harder to teach.

    If you like to teach and want to get better you can take TEFL class and that usually helps, but it is not necessarily going to help if you have no BA degree because the VISA law states that you need a BA to be eligible for a work VISA

    With that said it is a combination of the system of English education, the laws governing who can hire who, VISA laws, schools being ran as businesses before institutions of education, and foreigners who do not take their jobs seriously that contributes to the problem. So it is not always clean cut
  • patrick or 潘云迪
    yeah i agree with you on this, actually I have been teaching for about two years now, as you said "part-time" but yeah I also have encountered each and ever one of these problems,

    the BA degree thing, no i have a diploma in anatomy and physiolog and myology but highest thing in english was honours level english grade A..

    But im working on the Chinese side of thing and thats giving a bit of an edge and making the work finding much much easier.

    I was going to go for TEFL just to learn some more teaching experience techniques, but i met a friend who did it and well he mentioned to me its alot of common sense things and we compared notes and while i missed some key points i had the others covered, sitll though i appreciate the time to reply to this
  • Amber
    Amber wrote:
    the wage is the same?

    what are u people eager to hear then?

    u speak English as the first language, coming to countries in where people speak other language and happen to engoy learning english, are u not lucky enough, or is that one part of reasons why u come here?

    so again what on earth are u eager to hear in china?

    as u admit here, u are proud of the wage u earn from being a english teacher in china , which is much more than a chinese can get. at the same time, ur work time is much shorter than ours.

    so what else honours do u guys wanna get from us?

    u know ,i always hate to argue with people,i said nothing when i first time read this tread, and then u guys caterred for each others ,and started to be excited to throw more words to judge our educational system, i did not say the system was perfect, whereas there is no need to started to elaborate the downsides of its for reasoning the upsides or let`s say the necessity of .....

    are u sure u like china ? well for the job opportunities of being a english teacher for the salaries,or .........whatever the reason is, guess u are, and guess we show u enough respect as well. but with the prize for the lessons u are changing , to be honest i doubt it,

    and obviously u need more than that, u need us to not only say thanks for ur exists in china improveing our english skills but also say what a nobility of the job u are doing. compared to other jobs.....it is hard to say..........why? because the job u are doing takes less responsebility than a teacher hired by a university. by the way do u have the qulifications of teaching skills? at least some of the english speaker who teach english in china do nto have it.

    some of english speaker even avoid to talk to chinese ,just cause they consider it as a chance for us to practice spoken english freely......i have not met but heard of. yeah i do nto agree to stop a foreinger to force him to talk to self, i will never do that, but the point is what in the world u want in china. the happyness u get or money from chinese if the english lesson is not free for us ?then guess it is both of them.
    so just allow people to evaluate the type of job u are doing in china, even if some professional person look down to u. (i do nto know ...u show the meaning here)






  • patrick or 潘云迪
    I guess, Amber, at least what I want to have recognition for is, ah he is surviving and is capable of maybe sustaining a living for himself and be given credit for it "not by everyone" but just by those it would matter from per say in the future I was to get into some sort of relationship. I don’t want the parents thinking; well he’s just an English teacher.

    I can see where this is going and at the risk of being labeled a yes person, it is grossly unfair about the hours and the pay, seriously I wouldn’t mind about the pay so much its just I see it as what I’m doing is showing the ability to provide bread on the table. You know maybe as much as I do that the first thing parents look at is ; is my daughter happy and is he capable of taking good care of her, now, if I am wrong please tell me but to prior experience this is that I have draws an conclusion on.

    And just as a last thing, I’m super proud to be in China, why you ask, because I many aspects, food, culture, and as for the reason I came here. I came here to learn Chinese gong fu, to be more specific shaolin gong fu, and I guess after I was going to go back and teach in Ireland where I’m from, spread the culture and the gong fu in a different was as is currently being done, for this I hold my opinions and beliefs that martial art isn’t just for fighting but its for teaching yourself how to be at peace and develop others skills such as interpersonal skills, benevolence, empathy, awareness and most important how to be humble. But some where along the way I feel in love with being here I started to do my best with the language and keep going at it, its making progress, for this I feel more independent and it allows me to see a lot more things and be thankful for what I have 我开始跑题了。

    再见
  • Daniel
    Daniel wrote:
    @Patrick.
    You're right than not everyone takes it all that seriously, and I would go as far as to say these account for a large number of the English teachers in China. For instance, the area I work in is a little outside of Beijing, has a high-turnover rate of teachers and doesn't have more than about 25-30 at any given time, and I've heard some stories about ridiculous behaviour, including the guy who lived in my campus apartment before me(drunkeness, violence, students living with him to cook and clean).

    So I can at least understand the negative image of English Teachers in China, and the same was often true of English Teachers in Korea despite tougher requirements and heavier enforcement.

    Having said that, whilst I understand where it comes from I don't really care all that much and I just don't have any time for Chinese people that think we're all like this. I'm ridiculously happy with my job,my work-life and my students( when they're not trying to rip off study guides in their essays!) so some people I've never met thinking badly of me because of the English Teacher status doesn't really bother me so much.

  • Peter Baird
    Peter Baird wrote:
    I agree 100 per cent, Daniel.

    The people who piss me off the most are the ones who think we are here teaching English because we can't get jobs in our own countries. I gave up at a 33,000 CAD a year job to do this. I'm not sorry; teaching is by far a lot more interesting than the grocery business. But the insinuation that people come here to teach English because there are no oppurtunities at home is really, really insulting.
  • Candy Q
    Candy Q wrote:
    @peter.
    those ppl might have some bad experiences with some bad teachers...
    that's probably where the stereotype came from...but don't take it personl, if they r too stupid to realize how stupid that thought is, they don't deserve your attention anyway.

    The Chinese education market has a lot of potential.
    1, the market is huge, ppl r willing to invest in education. especially parents.
    2, if u r good, market share is always there for u to take. There's no loyalty in the teaching-learning relationship any more.

    But the problems exist.
    1. most of the ppl r not educated enough to understand what it takes to be a good teacher. that's why parents go too crazy and would just pay for anything they can get.
    2.The system is broken is many ways and it will take time to fix it. sadly many of the English schools in China r so full of shit. such as the crazy English guy (he is huge in China).

    well the good thing is there's many good teachers here too, they get a lot of respect and appreciation. most important thing, they DO HELP, and that's some amazing work.
  • patrick or 潘云迪
    The crazy English guy? That’s the one shouting the English right? anyway, there are alot of foreigners who I guess choose their own life style and yeah we are free to do that, but under the pressure of materialistic ways of a certain some, I come to the stability part of things, mainly, someone sees you and they want to get into a relationship, seeing that one studies gong fu in part time and also teaches English in where ever he gets "as it was once said, the market is open and there is very little relationship between teacher and headmaster" so sometimes you do inevitable switch job or something goes sour. So this chop and change sometimes gives off a good impression we are not capable, also not to mention the other point mentioned above “come to china because no jobs at home". But a question for girls who might read this, when you see a guy like this, what is your gut feeling on things if you were to see yourself getting serious, now im aware that might come across wrong so before any damage is done i therefore want to clarify my point is relating back to previous experience, sort of an unstoppable force meets an immovable object situation,
  • Ms Bla
    Ms Bla wrote:
    wow this is a good point and i think this is a career planning problem.
    whoever in the growing process,there are hundreds of career options out there. but how do you make a career choice when you don't really know what you want to do?yes I'm the one who is confusing abt their jobs. cuz in China,when i was a child really that the old&tranditional culture a lots of different from nowadays. my parents decided my future job, yes i have to say I'm more lucky than someone of others, becoz I thought this career is right what they decided for me. and not bad, I'm living in 21 century, I got a job, I had friends, and my parents needn't helping me choose my future spouse. wow pretty cool, I love it. lol
    oohhh sorry, I'm ran of ideas. does it seem like an insurmountable task? It's not. Yes, you will have to put some time and energy into making your decision if you loved your teaching job. But also is okay if just for earn more money It is not a fault everything you decided. but your effort will be well worth it in the end.
    I searched some simple faster steps follow here to making a good career choice.
    first of all : assess yourself. (did you ?)
    Before you can make a career choice you have to learn about yourself. Your values, interests, and skills, in combination with certain personality traits, will make some careers especially suitable for you and some particulary inapproprate. You can use self assessment tools to gather this information and, subsequently, to generate a list of occupations that are deemed appropriate. such as make a 5 years career planning, or everything you wanted planning list on your wall,as a reminder everyday when you get up. ...


    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Crap crap Blair ...go back to work and study ... lol
    yeah I'm a guy had fuck threads up personality... haha
  • patrick or 潘云迪
    blair, that sounds pretty good what your mentioning, and yeah im aware of the older genearation choosing their sons or daughters career, but actually that happened a long time in Ireland, but thats going a long long way back. Yeah it seems what you have is pretty good and well its what we are happy with, me, well i did assess myself and found out that teaching was something i was good at, but it wasnt drawn to a specific area, now what i intended to teach was in fact shaolin, tai ji and mantis, but, when i came to China I found it quite hard to leave here, there are many reasons, its very simple to say I fell in love with China despite all the negative images it holds in the west, and I even find when somone abuses China, I do get a bit pissed by it, now ok some are reading this and saying, but what about the obvious problems, ok education in some ways being run like businesses and a few other things, but if you take a step back and look at things from an outside perspective, is what is happening in europe much different, then there is the thing of safety, im not being niave about this but i feel far safer in china than in any small street or road in my nations capital, now i miss my homeland, no doubt about that, my music reminds me of how lovely it is, but each friday or day that nothing happened to me was a blessing in disguise, now i know where this thread can go if i keep this line of thought so im going to try drop it now, and get back to the original part, yes blair you have points on the whole know yourself first then think of what you love and what you wanna do and so on, but this is the tricky part, and while i can say myself i am comfortable with what i have and of course strive for more, there are people who dont see the determination of the person just see what he is in, or the job hes doing, and make a judgement from that, its sad and often will make me wonder is it a career to doom yourself? who knows, i remember my dad banging on about how teaching tai chi and personal training wasnt a real job until he saw the money it created, ok end of post ..... see you
  • patrick or 潘云迪
    well this seems to be a dead thread already hehe, nevertheless it served its purpose, and some good things were sought out. I dub thee a successful first post,,
  • Ms Bla
    Ms Bla wrote:
    becoz you says SEE YA ! lol
  • Joachim Bøhn
    Joachim Bøhn wrote:
    i know a teaching position availble in Beijing: native speaker of english; bachelor's degree, with min1 year ESL teaching experience. anyone interested pls. call 4006002008 or write to me.
  • patrick or 潘云迪
    @ blair, damn so that was it, I guess thats the reason I failed internet forum discussion 101... *note to self* end things with more openended topics and not endings.. Thanks blair.

    @nina, please no advertising on this discussion...
  • Ms Bla
  • MiLo
    MiLo wrote:
    有图有真相。
  • Ms Bla
    Ms Bla wrote:
    Prime and you can find a job from this thread (but if you are a english native.....)... lol ..........

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