Discussion » Employment Opportunities » Let's talk about career development.

  • wrote:
    1. Is it easy for you to find a job in other countries? For example, if you are a foreign citizen, how do you find a suitable job for yourself in Beijing?

    2. Is it easy for a Chinese to find a job in other countries? What're the obstacles for him or her?

    Can you share your experiences with us?
  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)
    ...

    1. "No", and "no idea" ... hahaha ...

    2. This one is a bit tricky, is the condition is to find a job, or to find a well paid job? And what is the cut off line, if there is one?
  • wrote:
    2. of course for a well-educated Chinese to find a suitable position and well-paid one in Europe or United States? What's the typical salary level in those countries compared with China? haha
  • Pete DeMola
    Pete DeMola wrote:
    It's all about your skills and ability, both soft (organizational, how you interact with others, creativity) and hard (job training, academic major).

    A healthy combination paired with ambition should get you quite far, especially in surging economies like China and Brazil.

    As an aside, a recent New York Times article discussed how more and more American-trained Chinese scientists are returning to China to work, turning down sizable opportunities and benefit packages in the process.

    I think that's a trend we'll see more of in the future.
  • wrote:
    Pete,

    Your reply does make sense. Specific person has different situation.

    But I think that you are a little optimistic about China, I do not know the situation in Brazil. It is not easy for common people in China to make money. The situation in this country is too complicated. At least, so many young graduates can not find their jobs in this country.

    Currently, more and more young men choose to work for government, large state-owned enterprises and some government-sponsored organizations, because these organizations can guarantee stability and the welfares.

    I do not know too much about those who invested in China. As for those scientists, their choice maybe can not be representative, some of them want to do big thing in China or want to get a higher recognition or some like.
  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)
    ...

    I dont know about the pay in Europe and America ... someone else might know ...

    Now to answer your Q2 and I will consider those industries that have vancancies similar to China ... in Australia, Chinese tend to give the impression that we are too humble, but we work hard and are usually very smart ... so it is not difficult to find a reasonably paid job, easily in the 6 digits per annum ...

    If there is any obstacles, however, local working experience, language and the willingness to mix with the locals are the usual suspects, cant say more at this point ...
  • Pete DeMola
    Pete DeMola wrote:
    Good points, Sun. I should have clarified by saying that

    A healthy combination paired with ambition should get you quite far, especially in surging economies like China and Brazil

    was a response to #1 and refers to Americans (because I can only speak for myself and some of my close buddies).
  • wrote:
    叮当,

    You are right, Chinese man are too humble, that's why they think we are not so confident, if we learn some behavior from other peoples, we will become better, haha, such as, if we do not feel good, then we go to the street and go on strikes, if we feel that we are discriminated then we take a gun and kill those guys with discrimination, I think the impression for Chinese will change, that's why I said, Chinese people are too kind but a little stupid, haha
    I do not want to offend any one, only talk some personal view, I still believe humble or modest attitude is much better than arrogant and rudeness.
    But I know there is racial discrimination in Australia. Is that true?
  • wrote:
    Pete,

    That's why so many Chinese dreamed to come to U.S., although beginning life for immigrants is tough, but I admit a good social system can guarantee individual struggle will be respected and achieved.

    As 叮当 said, local working experience, language and the willingness to mix with the locals are all factors influencing the career development. According to my observation, most Chinese people have problems to mix with locals; I think that is a big obstacle, of course, self-culture preservation is not wrong or problematic.
  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)
    ...

    Hahahaha ... you would get no argument from me about "humble", but I have been told a few times that Chinese must be less humble but a bit more aggressive at job interviews in order to get a suitable job ...

    As for discrimination, racial discrimination happens everywhere, if we could quickly review some of the discussions in this forum, you will agree that this is the case ... Australia is of course no exception, it is a matter of where such incidents might occur and how violent when they happened ...

    I am sure you understand the meaning of "眼不见为净", I think we can assume that some foreign countries might choose to cover up such news in order to maintain a good relationship with China, I cannot understand why Australia dont do that though, hahahaha
  • wrote:
    but I have been told a few times that Chinese must be less humble but a bit more aggressive at job interviews in order to get a suitable job ...
    ===================
    I think it is a good advice.

    By the way, oversea Chinese can not depend on China to do something to change discrimination; they have to depend on themselves.

    So, this world is far from being a globalized world, haha
  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)
    ...

    Hahahaha ... so close, and yet so far ...

    Personally, I had never expected the Chinese government to do anything about discrimination happening overseas, this should be done by the individual foreign governments ...

  • wrote:
    叮当,

    You have lots of international exposure than most people here, haha
    You are a treasure for us.

    Let's go back to the main topic, just like what you said, local working experience, language and the willingness to mix with the locals are all factors will influence the career of a foreigner in other countries.

    As for me, I think language is the biggest obstacle for Chinese people to stay in other countries; especially those with mainland China background, compared with other groups, their career centralize mainly in technology, engineering and restaurant or even lower level of employment.

    I know there are many guys working in China; you also can talk your experience and share with us.
  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)
    ...

    Hahahaha ... Sun, treasure? Thanks ... but I suggest you ask around, and you might find that most active WLIB members will NOT agree, and then maybe you will change you mind about me too ... let me know if that is the case ... hahahaha

    About the "willingness to mix", in my own case, I dont drink much and I dont talk much in social environment (unless I am on stage), so that was my own obstacles for many years ...

    Whether one has the "willingness to mix", it is somehow related to "expectation" and prejudice ... but one pattern I had noticed, from Hong Kong, Australia and Beijing, is that most of those "low income labour work" are done by "foreigners"...

    - in Hong Kong, these are mainland Chinese
    - in Australia, it is more like a "variety" of people, but you often see Chinese as waiters and waitresses, particularly foreign students
    - in China, these are "migrant workers" - and I doubt if any University graduates in China would consider waiting on people in restaurants

    In the case of Australia, you often find foreign (Chinese) students only mixing with their own, ot even other foreign students but not the local, my guess is that they feel less inferior due to the language barrier, and that is one major difference between Chinese and foreigners ... and if you actually know anyone back from overseas after a few years, and if you wonder why his/her English (or any other foreign language) might not be as good as you expect, that could be one of the biggest reasons ...

    Let's get a group together, online or in real life, and I will gladly share my experience with anyone interested ...
  • Ms Bla
    Ms Bla wrote:
    comeon the forum true guy DD u r willing to learn & willing to work& willing to progress all the time and never ever change, I have to say you've being on stage already, correct ?(at least i know that ! dont forget I'm ur little leo...lol )
    oh Oh OH dear gosh I'm really sorry i divulged my status is that of a soldier. hah
    yep I completely agree this good idea that get a group together online or in real life whatever , and wanna and looking forward to you guys speaking up ur valuable experiences sharing.
    @Hey Sun: u first go....... share ur experience give a sprat to catch a mackerel trust ya! hee hee ;-P I'll learn....
  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)
    ...

    Hahahaha ... Blair, the drug I put in your coffee and the Tiramisù had certainly worked better than I think, maybe I should get more ... but I would gladly share my experience with anyone thinking about going overseas (especially to Australia), either as a student or migrant etc ...

    One thing though: I suggest everyone to always set a correct and realistic expectation before making any important decision, either it be career move/changes, going overseas, marriage etc ... because disappointment and regret could be very "expensive" ...
  • Ms Bla
    Ms Bla wrote:
    haha I was just showed my angel side here, becoz the topic is really good!
    ..........................................not due to ur drug, it is no use to me @@@@ lol....
  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)
    ...

    Hahaha ... my dear B, please go to lunch, and make it a big feast ... I might go to HK later this month, could I bring you anything?
  • Ms Bla
    Ms Bla wrote:
    No thanks ! you know that I'm already got what I wanted from HK . hee hee
    I'll tell u If I wanna .... ;-P
  • wrote:
    I suggest everyone to always set a correct and realistic expectation before making any important decision, either it be career move/changes, going overseas, marriage etc ... because disappointment and regret could be very "expensive" ...
    ==========================
    yes, it means much cost of opportunities.
  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)
    ...

    Hahahaha ... not just the cost of opportunity ...

    It is difficult to talk about a general case, so let's be a bit specific ... imagine you are going to live and work in another city, within China or foreign country ... you were told many wonderful things about the city and job etc, but it turned out to be a complete disaster when you arrive, and for whatever reason, you are stuck there for the next 3 or 5 years ... the money might be good, even the career prospect too, but you find that you have to drag your feet to work instead of welcoming everyday as a new challenge ...

    The cost then would be your health, both mental and physical ...

    Once, I met a young engineer in Beijing, fresh from school and he asked me whether Australia might offer a better life than Beijing ... of course I agreed, but after analysing his situation, he had given up that idea ...

    Many people have expectations, dreams and imaginations before they move to another city or country, not that there is anything wrong about this, but it needs to be realistic ...

    That's all ...
  • wrote:
    The cost then would be your health, both mental and physical ...
    ===============================
    haha, 叮当, that will be the same situation for most people in their own country, especially in China.
    Take me for example, I am an immigrant worker in Beijing, therefore, if I want to buy a department, I have to work hard and try to make more money. If I can make the same money with less pressure and better living condition in other country or cities, it will benefit me in fact. If a man can not give up something he possesses, perhaps he can not get what he wants in the future.
    If I can find a well-paid and stable position in Beijing, I would not think about go abroad and so forth.
  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)
    ...

    Hahahaha ... Sun, I think you mean "apartment", right? To this date, I still cannot understand how the "hu kou" system works, there is too much "favoritism" ...
  • wrote:
    haha, yes, apartment, not department, a department is far more expensive than an apartment.

    HuKou is legal residential certificate, which can decide much in Chinese society, especially for a country controlled by bureaucracy, it will influence your job-hunting, some positions only open to those who has a local HuKou, some universities accepted more students in Beijing, Shanghai, Tianjin than any other places, you can say is a little unfair. As a whole, a HuKou of Beijing or Shanghai means much for a common person living in that city. Just like a Hong Kong HuKou, which can allow the people in HongKong to travel to many places without any visa constraints?
  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)
    ...

    Hahaha ... if you buy shares of a department store or retailers, then technically, you own a piece of the department ...

  • wrote:
    But I have no insider information; therefore, I will never invest in Chinese stock market.
  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)
    ...

    Hahahaha ... just speculate ... that's how most of the successful investors invest in China ...

  • MiLo
    MiLo wrote:
    language teacher is the first choice...
  • 叮噹叔叔 (令狐叮噹)
    ...

    Chuck ... "language teacher"?
  • Ms Bla
    Ms Bla wrote:
    I'm a cost accounting teacher! haha

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